Some great points in there Wilbur. Keep posting.
At what point does a half day become a full one?
- Thread starter mainstreetprod
- Start date
I like some of your finer points. Esp. about taking as much as you can to all your gigs. Ive been doing that lately. It works.
groveChuck
U-matic Member
A half day is 5 hours.
I won't hesitate to take a 1/2 day after noon the day before. Other times, often, but not always. Depends on my sched in general and other working commitments.
1/2 is 75% full day.
On a 1/2 day shoot, at about 4.25 hours, I'll point out the time, ask them if they want to go hourly beyond 5, make it a full day, or wrap it up at 5.
I won't hesitate to take a 1/2 day after noon the day before. Other times, often, but not always. Depends on my sched in general and other working commitments.
1/2 is 75% full day.
On a 1/2 day shoot, at about 4.25 hours, I'll point out the time, ask them if they want to go hourly beyond 5, make it a full day, or wrap it up at 5.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Yep and personally i don't believe theres such a thing as half days really (maybe thats different if it takes you 2 secs to get from one place to the net) but in the UK, normally half days in video / at least in the corporate field are dismissed.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
I always just tell my cinematographer how much I have for them in the budget, that's the rate, there isn't any negotiating because I don't make a killing off what I do. It's up to the client, really. I wish they were paying enough that we all made out like bandits, unfortunately I deal with the same crap with the clients that the cinematographers deal with when they want more money from me -- it's just not in the budget!
If I pay $300 for a full day, I usually pay $250 for a half-day, so really not much less, because a day is a day basically.
If I pay $300 for a full day, I usually pay $250 for a half-day, so really not much less, because a day is a day basically.
mikkowilson
Steadi-Guru
One key component in the decision process for me is: Which half?
Get up at 6am (after a full day that went into the night before) to work "just until lunch" (leaving at 3pm).
Or show up at 5pm for an evening event shoot that ends at 9pm?
Guess which I'll give you a cut on?
Also, I normally do the hourly thing as an option, but then settle on a "project rate" that leaves out time entirly, but ensures I'll get paid for hoever long I think the production *could* go. - Vary rarely do I get burned by OT this way, and those few instances are made up for many times over in client relations.
One common line of negotiating for me is:
FIRST find out about how long the job is, when, what's their budget, etc... figure out what you want to get paid ($Y) - based on what's reasonable, what their budget is, etc... Then do the math with them: "Here's my hourly rate, I normaly only charge full days, so that's going to $x. And how many days?(confirming) 3? So that would be $3x.. (let this sink in for a moment, pray they don't hang up [trick is to continue just before they do if you think they will]) .. but as it's all one job; how about we just say $Y (what I originally wanted for the job) for the whole thing at - we can call it a 'Project Rate' and you don't need to worry if it runs over a little on some of the days."
They get a great deal, I get what I wanted (feel is fair). Everyone is happy.
Another - slightly harder line of negotiating I've heard from someone who was very much in the position to use it was this:
Tell them your rate, then shut up. Whoever speaks first: loses.
Works for lots of negotiations, not just rates.
Also, awesome post Wilbur, thanks!
- Mikko
Get up at 6am (after a full day that went into the night before) to work "just until lunch" (leaving at 3pm).
Or show up at 5pm for an evening event shoot that ends at 9pm?
Guess which I'll give you a cut on?
Also, I normally do the hourly thing as an option, but then settle on a "project rate" that leaves out time entirly, but ensures I'll get paid for hoever long I think the production *could* go. - Vary rarely do I get burned by OT this way, and those few instances are made up for many times over in client relations.
One common line of negotiating for me is:
FIRST find out about how long the job is, when, what's their budget, etc... figure out what you want to get paid ($Y) - based on what's reasonable, what their budget is, etc... Then do the math with them: "Here's my hourly rate, I normaly only charge full days, so that's going to $x. And how many days?(confirming) 3? So that would be $3x.. (let this sink in for a moment, pray they don't hang up [trick is to continue just before they do if you think they will]) .. but as it's all one job; how about we just say $Y (what I originally wanted for the job) for the whole thing at - we can call it a 'Project Rate' and you don't need to worry if it runs over a little on some of the days."
They get a great deal, I get what I wanted (feel is fair). Everyone is happy.
Another - slightly harder line of negotiating I've heard from someone who was very much in the position to use it was this:
Tell them your rate, then shut up. Whoever speaks first: loses.
Works for lots of negotiations, not just rates.
Also, awesome post Wilbur, thanks!
- Mikko
Wilbur Eddings
Well-known member
Warning: Off Topic thoughts incoming:
The most important bit of advice I can give is this:
As a Freelancer, you are a business. You may have but one employee but you are a business.
Your goals always have to include expansion and growth - without those objectives, it becomes very difficult to pay the bills and stay excited about your business.
I'm not talking about graphs and stuff here, I'm talking about the next piece of equipment you want, possibly an assistant or two... etc.
Seeing yourself as a business makes the negotiating a lot more fun.
You no longer do freebies, you do 'marketing exercises' and treat those 'freebies' as marketing exercises, get those business cards flashing and chat to everything that moves about your awesome new piece of equipment and kick ass website... Currency is Time, Energy and Money - You may not have one but you will always have the other thus money is not the only currency in your marketing budget...
Do EVERYTHING on purpose for a specific purpose... That way your won't feel lost, robbed and under appreciated in the chaos that is the creative industry...
Righto. Enough thread hijacking from Wilbur!
The most important bit of advice I can give is this:
As a Freelancer, you are a business. You may have but one employee but you are a business.
Your goals always have to include expansion and growth - without those objectives, it becomes very difficult to pay the bills and stay excited about your business.
I'm not talking about graphs and stuff here, I'm talking about the next piece of equipment you want, possibly an assistant or two... etc.
Seeing yourself as a business makes the negotiating a lot more fun.
You no longer do freebies, you do 'marketing exercises' and treat those 'freebies' as marketing exercises, get those business cards flashing and chat to everything that moves about your awesome new piece of equipment and kick ass website... Currency is Time, Energy and Money - You may not have one but you will always have the other thus money is not the only currency in your marketing budget...
Do EVERYTHING on purpose for a specific purpose... That way your won't feel lost, robbed and under appreciated in the chaos that is the creative industry...
Righto. Enough thread hijacking from Wilbur!
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paulears
Veteran
Most of my work takes place in the evenings - we shoot in theatres. So we actually have three types of day - short, medium and long. If the actual event takes place from 7.30 ending before 10, and we are already set up from the previous day, then we'll be on site by say 6pm - short day. If there are rehearsals before the show, we will need to start around 2-3pm - full day, and a few shows have a matinee in the afternoon, followed by an evening show. We'll be on site from around 10am, finishing around 10pm(plus maybe an hour for the strike/de-rig and the end. This is a long day - even though the gap between shows involves no actual work.
This system works fine for us.
This system works fine for us.
