As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

[quote author=Nathyn link=board=Clips;num=1081211098;start=0#19 date=04/09/04 at 14:38:07]

What makes you say that?

-Nate[/quote]

Just that with a title like that, one might expect something kind of grand (big glossy production etc.) Something epic.
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

Nope it's just what it is. The title of the movie states exactly what it's about. Nothing more nothing less.

-Nate
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

... Every time you release a new trailer, parts of it have gotten better, while other parts of it have gotten worse.

Look, you have some good stuff here, but why can't you edit it right?

I think you need to do some research. Go online and find trailers from Hollywood action movies. Learn from them. Sure, you need to be original and come up with your own stuff, but right now it looks like you've gotten too far ahead of yourself without having the basics down cold. The opening sequence with the "old white guy" (as another board member has named him) is just a mess. It's bad enough that the lighting isn't so great, but you could at least fix the glaring audio problems that have carried through to each and every one of your trailers so far. At least make use of roomtone so the audio doesn't just cut out for no reason.

A rookie like me should be making these kinds of mistakes, not someone who's been able to start a big project like this.

Editing is all about going over the footage again and again and again until you're completely satisfied with it. You have to be critical of yourself; recognize and pick out every little problem, no matter how insignificant; watch the footage until you've practically memorized every single frame. Cutting a shot by just a few frames earlier or later can make all the difference.

Someone else here suggested you drop the actor title cards. That would make it look better, but only because you're using them incorrectly at the moment.

Basically, you just have to learn how to edit.

Or, you could always hire an editor.

Also, lisen to everything STORYTELLER32 had to say. He seems to know what he's talking about.

P.S: You also might want to consider changing the music, if possible.
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

yes drop the actors' name cards... especially if they are some no namers that no one knows
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

Well the trailers are gone. I simply put the trailers up there because people kept asking for trailers and I wanted to show them a little bit of what I doing. I won't put any more trailers up until I have a final one. And the actor cards were for the television trailers just for the net so people would know who my actors are. I don't have time to edit a movie and cut a pro trailer at the same time so everone will just have to wait. As for doing research on action films - if you only knew trailers.

-Nate
 
Re: (How the above post should read)

Re: (How the above post should read)

Well the trailers are gone. I simply put the trailers up there because people kept asking for trailers and I wanted to show them a little bit of what I doing. I won't put any more trailers up until I have a final one. And the actor cards weren't for the television trailers just for the net so people would know who my actors are. I don't have time to edit a movie and cut a pro trailer at the same time so everone will just have to wait. As for doing research on action film trailer - if you only knew.

And by the way, STORYTELLER32 is right about some things but I don't have a final product and I'm working on it as we speak. You're looking at a few shots out of probably five or more of each and some of the things I'm going for is simply lost. I guess I should've shot this like a straight movie and not have tried anything fancy.

-Nate
 
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

As I saw this post after you took the trailers down, Nathyn, so I can't really comment on the trailer itself. It seems to me that the thing that colored most people's perception of your work, however, is the way you presented it in this post.

I don't think you should feel that you are being criticized for trying "fancy" things with your work; that's part of the fun of wielding a camera. Sometimes things work, and sometimes they don't, but without any experimentation we won't ever see anything new.

If you don't have time to cut an immaculate trailer, we understand — we're all busy folks, too — but when you imply that it's a Hollywood-grade action movie trailer, then that's what we expect to see. Notice that nobody had anything really disparaging about it to say, except that it generally doesn't live up to your own hype.

I guess I'm just disappointed to find out that you pulled the trailers. I suspect that others, like me, are just happy to see clips of our favorite camera in action. We're all enthusiasts here, so perhaps it's best to just focus on what you do, and let your work speak for itself.

I'll keep an eye out for more clips in the future; hopefully I can comment on your actual work then.
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

Thanks Pais but no more trailers until I can cut together something hot. I don't really think I implied it was a "Hollywood style" trailer as much as it being a hot trailer. Booggerg gave some very good constructive criticism about the lighting. I didn't agree with his cinematography thing but in the end he got it right when he said "It just doesn't fit my taste." It just wasn't for him and that's cool. I think he understood that whatever it was he was used to I wasn't going for. I pretty much agreed with Party_Pooper as well.  

What I didn't like was the implication that my actors didn't seem genuine in their portrayals considering both guys are pros and did the scene just the way I imagined it. And then talk about the dialogue and my composition not being good. As if I don't know how to compose a shot. The shots were done to do what they're supposed to do - look cool when I wanted or help tell the story when I wanted. I'm not going to pretend like I'm an Oscar winner but I know how to put scene together the way I want it to look. Some people made good points and as I've said I'm still in post and still editing

The trailer was slapped together but still made with the idea of how to get people's attention. (When you make a rough trailer this is how you do it to get an idea how the final trailer will look). When you see trailers on television you go to the film and the film doesn't come anywhere near the way you saw the scenes in the trailer. A trailer has to explain the movie in 30 seconds to a minute and catch people before or as they flip the channel. The first few seconds will pull people in. I have to ask the question will my trailer make people look up after they've turned their heads of whatever else.

I just felt some of the comments were made without looking at the whole idea of what the movie was. I said it over and over. This is supposed to have an urban run and gun feel and not be super slick over produced stuff. The slickness comes in with the camera work and in the action scenes. We used what we had and created some great stuff. I admit there where scenes put with other scenes just because they looked cool but that is how a trailer is cut.

This is an action film and almost every film I see that's not an indy drama or thriller is action. I've studied action, I know action, I know hot to shoot it and how it should look. I've seen and have taken apart movies on cable that I know I could've shot better. The martial arts are decent but shoot at boring angles, the gunplay is aweful even when the director tried something cool and when it's all over I just think that I could've had the $10,000  to sometimes upward of $300,000 HBO payed for this flick. So to have someone dis my trailer that way was upsetting (minus the comment about the actor cards and the music levels which made sense). So I figured those who wanted to see the trailers had seen them and were happy. I'll probably put more grabs up for those who want to see them but everyone else will have to wait for the new trailers. I refuse to have unfinished work critiqued in this fashion.

-Nate
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

I wasn't really a part of the initial discussions, but I've been following along pretty closely.  And after this last comment, I thought I'd chime in.

Nate, your first post on this thing said, "Hey, what do you think of this?" which implied that you were open to any and all feedback.  If you'd said, "Here is my trailer, and it's not finished, so don't be too critical," then you probably wouldn't have gotten these sorts of critiques.  Instead, most of your posts, like what Pais said, you've been touting your film to be the best new thing around, and you seem pretty disinterested in hearing anything even remotely critical.  So why make the postings in the first place, and why remove them?  If you're going up against the public at large, these questions and critiques are going to come up.  And most of us here aren't seasoned veterans, so we're looking at your work (and trying to lend some helpful criticisms) from a "general public perspective."

As for your trailer, I think I'd agree with pretty much all of what was said in all of the other posts, primarily that some of your shots weren't working (wouldn't you have used the best stuff for your trailer in the first place?).  And second, that some of your actors might not exactly fit their respective roles very well.  In this regard, if you want people to believe in your characters, you have to have to either 1) cast people who work extremely well with the characters provided, or 2) alter your script to fit the actors you know, so we can believe in them.  Personally, I didn't believe that your lead was a hardened combat veteran, nor a martial arts expert, and that's just from watching the trailer.  He very well could be a hardened combat veteran and a martial arts expert, but if that doesn't translate over to Joe Audience Member, then you don't have characters that we can follow.

So anyway, to get off of that tanget, the main point of this message is to say that it's probably unwise to say that you "refuse to have unfinished work critiqued in this fashion," if you willfully make a posting that opens yourself up to critique in this fashion.  Please keep in mind that most of this business is humility, and that you've got this outlet here (dvxuser.com) that seems to make getting in touch with your humbleness far easier than out in pretty much any other environment (try working with paying clients every day). This message board is only here to help, and it's pretty darned helpful, if you ask me.

- Steve
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

I am open to constructive criticism of my work and that's what I was hoping for. Some I got, some I didn't.

-Nate
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

Hang in there Nate. I think the best service we can do for one another is be honest with our critiques. Surely you would not want anyone to say "Looks great!" just to be nice.

I know you must have put your sweat and balls into this one and I truly applaud you for completing this film. Some critisicm you have to take with the grain and use it it or simply say "thank you for your comments. "

I also stress, for the reviewers of any work that it's important to be tactful and professional (I admit there is a post in here that seemed harsh) and not say "That sucks maaan...". with no warrant.

Be prepared to graciously accept responses as requested.
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

I wasn't a part of this thread till now, but I did watch your trailers...everyone basically summed up what I thought, though.

The thing is, I know that if I put a trailer online, and wanted suggestions, it *is* constructive critisism to hear that people didn't like your actors.  It doesn't mean that your actors are hated as individuals, but they just didn't neccesarily work (in the poster's opinions).

At least you've got people responding to your trailers!  That's definitely a good thing! (winks to all but the three people who said something about my Gray Christmas trailer :P)
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

[quote author=Mike_Donis link=board=Clips;num=1081211098;start=25#32 date=04/14/04 at 15:27:09] (winks to all but the three people who said something about my Gray Christmas trailer :P)[/quote]

:D
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Clips;num=1081211098;start=25#31 date=04/14/04 at 15:15:58]I just don't think the Army of God uses silencers.
[/quote]

But the US Army does and that's the army Daniel belongs too. And of course the intell agents do.

[quote author=Mike_Donis link=board=Clips;num=1081211098;start=25#32 date=04/14/04 at 15:27:09]I wasn't a part of this thread till now, but I did watch your trailers...everyone basically summed up what I thought, though.
 
The thing is, I know that if I put a trailer online, and wanted suggestions, it *is* constructive critisism to hear that people didn't like your actors.  It doesn't mean that your actors are hated as individuals, but they just didn't neccesarily work (in the poster's opinions).
 
At least you've got people responding to your trailers!  That's definitely a good thing! (winks to all but the three people who said something about my Gray Christmas trailer )[/quote]

I do like the fact that people were interested in the trailers enough to respond but I was pretty much taken aback by some of the comments. Like I said, there was some constructive stuff said here that I worked on right away, but some of it was a bit out of pocket. But it's no biggie and now that I look back on it I was a bit thin skinned which isn't normal for me. Principal photography ends Saturday and I plan to reshoot the scene in the diner a few weeks later. I was rushed and didn't get to say all I wanted to anyway so I guess the harsh criticism did prompt me to act.

-Nate
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

"This is not "yo momma's" low budget action flick thriller, trust me."

I guess this is what annoyed most ppl. I know it did for me. The "trust me" part put it over the top.
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

Uh, just curious, but why did this annoy you. I mean it wasn't an attack or anything and people have said my action scenes look better than what you usually get from American low budget action films so I don't see why that would annoy you. I thought it was "cute". Maybe I was wrong. I'll make a deal with you, I won't say anything else to hype my movie, I'll just let you all be the judge. Framegrabs coming soon.

-Nate
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

It bugs people because it makes them think you're cocky... this just gives people the want to find anything they can wrong with whatever you post... better to be humble...

you'll get much better crits being humble because people won't be looking to shoot down whatever you have...

the people on here have seen it all so to just come on and say your movie is the ****, it makes them a little hostile.
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

Precisely.. when you said this ain't yo mama's low budget film. I expected a real quality project. To be frank... I thought the entire project was sort of a hack job(technically that is), from the look of the website to the "glamour" shots. But really, it was the trailer that did it in. That's just my $.02 though.
 
Re: As Promised to the DVXusers forum and others

Wow. I didn't mean to rub anyone the wrong way. I was just having a little fun enjoying myself a little but I guess you guys have seen it all here. But while we're on it what's wrong with the website? People seemed to think the new site was nice. (Or were your comments about the old site I'm think you're talking about the old site because you mention the glam shots)? And the glamour shots were supposed to be funny. (Didn't you read the comments)? By the way, the new framegrabs are up.

-Nate
 
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