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Guest
Guest
Well said. +1
Well said. +1
NorBro
Major Contributor
You should try to write more scripts (maybe you do, IDK).
I know you love the camera (etc/etc), but I think your future is in writing.
And that doesn't mean I'm fond of all of your jokes; just that I have read you analyze everyday situations uniquely [and bizarrely] for years, and that talent might actually really work for someone out there looking for certain material.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
As someone who has worked with the Homeland, 24, Family Guy and Simpsons writing staffs for years, there is soooooo much more money to be made in writing over being a camera monkey.
But I will say that an extraordinary amount of the writers for those shows all attended the same Ivy Leagues. I have seen very few "outsiders" but it's not impossible. Also, stand up. If Eric could
transition to stand up and have some success, that would make him a contender. Seriously. About half the Family Guy writers came from stand up.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Totally agree. Although stand-up is more difficult because so much relies in your personality, delivery, even your looks for some people. You have to have an effect on people.
With writing, you could create roles for hundreds of others. Or create shows. Scenes. Commercials. Films. YouTube videos. So much opportunity.
The only X-factor being - like with most things in life - who's going to pay, who's going to be interested.
With writing, you could create roles for hundreds of others. Or create shows. Scenes. Commercials. Films. YouTube videos. So much opportunity.
The only X-factor being - like with most things in life - who's going to pay, who's going to be interested.
My free career advice to Eric - I'll accept a gratuity - is to do what he's doing with shorts but become more of a writer-director-cinematographer of his pieces (if he can swing the budget). The streaming universe has unlimited bandwidth and server space and, to quote Bill Gates, "content is king".
combatentropy
Veteran
I wandered over to a writer's forum, but all they wanted to talk about was ink viscosity and paper weight.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I've written 16 scripts which I've made into short films, and probably another around 50 scripts that haven't been made. I wrote one feature which I made for my senior thesis film in college. So, perhaps five scripts per year for the past 12 years. I've been writing a lot more lately, around 12 short scripts in the past year and perhaps another dozen fleshed out script ideas that were never fully put to paper. When I was unemployed for awhile after graduating college during the 2009 recession, I sort of became a "writer," which was a euphemism for unemployed. Like directing making income off of script-writing is not easy, probably even more difficult than making money directing.
I am writing, producing, directing, and DPing my shorts; I'm just not monetizing them since they're shorts and shorts don't typically make money. So, they're a building ground for growing reel and experience. Perhaps I'll produce a feature not too far into the future and try to monetize it. Unfortunately at the low end, $50k budget features rarely make good profits and more often lose money. But, they also work as building grounds to bigger ones.
But I'll let my State Farm rep know now that I am definitely not interested in the disability insurance they want to sell me, as if I become physically handicapped I can just become a writer then (and if I'm mentally handicapped my parents will take me back). Better than editing, as I don't enjoy editing much. I enjoy camera work and producing more than writing, but writing can be fun.
Watching Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and Louie C.K., neither of those shows really make a stand-up career look appealing, even if you succeed. Start out doing pay to play, slowly building up, and if you're successful you're traveling so much good luck having a legit family life. I hadn't realized until season three that David Mullen who has posted a lot on RedUser was the DP for Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.
Another show I'm currently watching showing stand-up, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia; spoilers ahead for this episode in season eight or nine, so the character Sweet Dee gets into stand-up, her friends cheer her on, the crowds love her, she gets an agent, then another better agent, gets booked on Conan, takes a private jet out to be on the show in L.A., arrives on set, the curtain is pulled back to perform for Conan, only to find out the jet and limo took her back to the same bar her friends run in Philadelphia, and they had set everything up as an elaborate prank, hiring extras for the crowd to pretend she was good at stand-up, hiring the private jet, the fake agents, etc. The joke was on her.
So, you never really know with stand-up if you're actually successful or not. That said, there's always acting, since I'm a bleeping actor now too.
In any case, camerawork is currently (aside from pandemic slow down) easy money and fun.
I haven't made a short film in several months now (aside from filming half of one at the beginning of the pandemic which got postponed due to it). It's getting time to get back to it. The pandemic is slowing down, friends are more willing to meet up and work together again on passion projects, I've got three scripts I'm planning to film soonish. Just waiting on some new equipment I'm trying to get to arrive. Perhaps a high dynamic range pen.
I am writing, producing, directing, and DPing my shorts; I'm just not monetizing them since they're shorts and shorts don't typically make money. So, they're a building ground for growing reel and experience. Perhaps I'll produce a feature not too far into the future and try to monetize it. Unfortunately at the low end, $50k budget features rarely make good profits and more often lose money. But, they also work as building grounds to bigger ones.
But I'll let my State Farm rep know now that I am definitely not interested in the disability insurance they want to sell me, as if I become physically handicapped I can just become a writer then (and if I'm mentally handicapped my parents will take me back). Better than editing, as I don't enjoy editing much. I enjoy camera work and producing more than writing, but writing can be fun.
Watching Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and Louie C.K., neither of those shows really make a stand-up career look appealing, even if you succeed. Start out doing pay to play, slowly building up, and if you're successful you're traveling so much good luck having a legit family life. I hadn't realized until season three that David Mullen who has posted a lot on RedUser was the DP for Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.
Another show I'm currently watching showing stand-up, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia; spoilers ahead for this episode in season eight or nine, so the character Sweet Dee gets into stand-up, her friends cheer her on, the crowds love her, she gets an agent, then another better agent, gets booked on Conan, takes a private jet out to be on the show in L.A., arrives on set, the curtain is pulled back to perform for Conan, only to find out the jet and limo took her back to the same bar her friends run in Philadelphia, and they had set everything up as an elaborate prank, hiring extras for the crowd to pretend she was good at stand-up, hiring the private jet, the fake agents, etc. The joke was on her.
So, you never really know with stand-up if you're actually successful or not. That said, there's always acting, since I'm a bleeping actor now too.
In any case, camerawork is currently (aside from pandemic slow down) easy money and fun.
I haven't made a short film in several months now (aside from filming half of one at the beginning of the pandemic which got postponed due to it). It's getting time to get back to it. The pandemic is slowing down, friends are more willing to meet up and work together again on passion projects, I've got three scripts I'm planning to film soonish. Just waiting on some new equipment I'm trying to get to arrive. Perhaps a high dynamic range pen.
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So, here's what I think might be/should be your next steps. You have your collection of shorts. Select 3-4 best ones and keep it on your Vimeo channel. Remove the rest (but upload them somewhere on YouTube, just in case someone demands an instant access)
Use your friends' connections to pitch yourself - via your top shorts - to the LA/NYC based talent agents. You've done well at the local film festivals, so somewhere along the way, this type of a connection ought to exist.
The idea is to then pitch the script to a streaming service with yourself as a writer/director/producer and get a commensurate budget/fee to film it. With 1-hr major productions running as high as $12M-$15M/episode, streamers ought to welcome the lower budget productions, as long as the quality is there. I figure that a 6-min short ought to be in the $150K-$250K/range. And you know your own costs already.
The key is getting an agent. And that's a hard part.
Use your friends' connections to pitch yourself - via your top shorts - to the LA/NYC based talent agents. You've done well at the local film festivals, so somewhere along the way, this type of a connection ought to exist.
The idea is to then pitch the script to a streaming service with yourself as a writer/director/producer and get a commensurate budget/fee to film it. With 1-hr major productions running as high as $12M-$15M/episode, streamers ought to welcome the lower budget productions, as long as the quality is there. I figure that a 6-min short ought to be in the $150K-$250K/range. And you know your own costs already.
The key is getting an agent. And that's a hard part.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I don't know much about this - but is a short really a viable product to offer a streamer? My impression is that shorts are a building ground to get attention and money to make something else because it's not a very commercial product. (I personally don't want many shorts for entertainment.)
And I've worked under writer/directors who wanted to make features and found that winning awards for shorts was not enough to get them the funding they needed to make a feature. So they went the route of self-funding a low-budget feature so they could show that around as proof that they could helm a feature-length project.
And I've worked under writer/directors who wanted to make features and found that winning awards for shorts was not enough to get them the funding they needed to make a feature. So they went the route of self-funding a low-budget feature so they could show that around as proof that they could helm a feature-length project.
G
Guest
Guest
I think Arri just told Red to F'K off, this is our territory, we won, we took you out.
First of all, there are many lovely images in there. But right at the 14:28 minute marker, I believe Arri is telling Red they won. Listen to Matthew McConaughey's words/monologue. He talks about a "young foolish Dragon". Red is well known for the Dragon, and now the Komodo sensors. So, very interesting way for Arri to end their 10 year anniversary video for the Alexa. If you know anything about the early days drama between the two, Red accused Arri of hacking their emails. There are also some "hacking" quotes from the 'Snowden' film. The drama is real. haha
The edit starting at 7:38 has some pretty funny edits to the music. Clever and playful editing.
EDIT: to further the theory that this video is subliminally wiping the floor with Red.
There are several references to lions throughout. Bravarian Lion Munich = Arri Headquaters
The first words spoken are Robert "Red"ford saying "SOS", then cuts to little "RED" riding hood saying "oh dear, how uneasy I feel".
Intercut with the McConaughey monologue about the "Dragon and the Lion", Rosamund Pike says "I believe there is another element" which is likely referencing 'Helium'.
And while this is a bit of a stretch, "5 bullets" that are shot into the Dragon's head... if you look at Arri's website under cameras, they currently have 5 models available for sale. The Alexa 65 is rental only.
First of all, there are many lovely images in there. But right at the 14:28 minute marker, I believe Arri is telling Red they won. Listen to Matthew McConaughey's words/monologue. He talks about a "young foolish Dragon". Red is well known for the Dragon, and now the Komodo sensors. So, very interesting way for Arri to end their 10 year anniversary video for the Alexa. If you know anything about the early days drama between the two, Red accused Arri of hacking their emails. There are also some "hacking" quotes from the 'Snowden' film. The drama is real. haha
The edit starting at 7:38 has some pretty funny edits to the music. Clever and playful editing.
EDIT: to further the theory that this video is subliminally wiping the floor with Red.
There are several references to lions throughout. Bravarian Lion Munich = Arri Headquaters
The first words spoken are Robert "Red"ford saying "SOS", then cuts to little "RED" riding hood saying "oh dear, how uneasy I feel".
Intercut with the McConaughey monologue about the "Dragon and the Lion", Rosamund Pike says "I believe there is another element" which is likely referencing 'Helium'.
And while this is a bit of a stretch, "5 bullets" that are shot into the Dragon's head... if you look at Arri's website under cameras, they currently have 5 models available for sale. The Alexa 65 is rental only.
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Quibi aside, I'd say we're in the uncharted waters. "Content is king" but its reign is open to interpretations. It's quite possible to be seen is only to be turned down.
More on Quibi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quibi
PS. I am surprised that none of the major streamers went after radio/internet talking heads (aside of the ESPN+, which has its own sport talk shows). Whether it's politics or pure entertainment, talk is cheap ... to acquire.
combatentropy
Veteran
Wow, I don't know if Arri meant all that, but either way I'm quite impressed.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Getting an agent is not necessarily that hard. Getting the RIGHT agent is hard. But much, much harder than that is getting a show picked up. I have a number of friends who have incredible writing careers, with many successful credits behind them; they sold scripts and even had a few pilots made but never made it to series. It's like running a gauntlet.
As far selling a show as a production entity based on having made low budget shorts, the studio/production companies are the ones making the budgets, not the filmmakers. They are all guild signatory, so once you factor in SAG/DGA/WGA/IATSE the costs go up significantly, plus the above the line swells (to a bloated point as far as I'm concerned). Believe me I have worked with a few directors who got handed upwards quickly on the basis of having made shorts and a common phrase is "can't we just..." which then forces someone to have to explain as to why no, we can't just.
Technically speaking, there are non-union jobs too. Whether a major streamer would bid for one is .... probably not.
But, heck, there are some 200 streaming services out there. An agent who specializes in these deals should be able to find the right one.
PS. An outsider is unlikely to end up with an own show. Getting a short made would be a huge victory of itself.
But, heck, there are some 200 streaming services out there. An agent who specializes in these deals should be able to find the right one.
PS. An outsider is unlikely to end up with an own show. Getting a short made would be a huge victory of itself.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
I'm not sure I'm following. If a signatory production is a SAG signatory, they can't make a non-SAG scripted series. That's what being a signatory means.
If you are talking about acquiring an existing property like a pilot or webseries that was made non-union, in all the instances I can think of the original material is never aired (the It's Always Sunny/Workaholics model).
But with so many outlets now it's entirely possible the rules will change somewhere, somehow.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
But it's possible to produce a feature non-union and sell that, right? Shane Carruth's Primer and Upstream Color were both non-union, I believe
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Yes, for sure. I thought we were talking about series. Usually when a non-union feature is acquired there are provisions built into the sale that cover the conversion, such as projects made under a SAG low budget or experimental contract.
John Brawley
Well-known member
The reason it's 12-15 mil per episodes (at the high end, many are not that much) is because the streamers are in an artificial bubble and they are outbidding each other for PROVEN talent.
If you have a track record then streamers will come for you and they are trying to tie people up in deals.
Also, streamers until recently weren't paying much in the way of residuals SO the creatives and above the line have been taking more money up front. That's why you have 26 producers on the credits for a big streaming show.
On some of my shows I only have met and know 2 of the 20+ producers attached to a show. Their names are on each call sheet but they simply had a hand in development at some point.
Only half of that per ep budget is actually going on the screen.
Agents....well...
Someone once said to me, "agents aren't interested in you until you no longer need them"...
Generally, agents find you, you don't find them is how it works. And the way to have them come find you is to do something cool that gets into a film festival somewhere or makes an impact on youtube / vimeo. Hollywood is actually very good at finding talent....
JB