Arri's New Camera

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guest
  • Start date Start date
James0b57 said:
WP also said in an interview very recently how much he liked shooting on film and what it did for the set and the way it forces everyone to be focused. There is a ritual and a discipline that gets lost on digital sets.
Click to expand...

Hard to disagree with that. And if that's an important part of his creative process, it's impossible to disagree with.

As for the ritual of focus pullers sweating it out and buzzing focus, I'm not totally sold on that. But I'm losing my train of thought and can't remember if we're talking about AI focus pullers or completely robotic film Production. I wouldn't want to be physically removed from the equation.

The director of Extraction:
director_feat-800x420.jpg

For the record, I would personally rather shoot on film.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, you may have something specific, in mind.

I’m saying, most people want that iPad and automated AI focus confidence. But the people that are currently pulling focus manually at the highest level might feel differently.

Personally, i love pulling focus manually, even when i am operating. There is a dance that happens, and that sense of being connected that i like. It is a skill, and an art that i find enjoyable.
 
James0b57 said:
Yeah, you may have something specific, in mind.

I’m saying, most people want that iPad and automated AI focus confidence. But the people that are currently pulling focus manually at the highest level might feel differently.

Personally, i love pulling focus manually, even when i am operating. There is a dance that happens, and that sense of being connected that i like. It is a skill, and an art that i find enjoyable.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you. It's just that there are shots that are difficult or impossible for me to pull off manually with adequate accuracy and I wouldn't want that to be the reason I didn't do the shot. All filmmaking tools are technology that enable creativity
 
ahalpert said:
I completely agree with you. It's just that there are shots that are difficult or impossible for me to pull off manually with adequate accuracy and I wouldn't want that to be the reason I didn't do the shot. All filmmaking tools are technology that enable creativity
Click to expand...

Don’t let me hold progress back. I know most productions even the higher end ones will benefit from it.

There are times when i am working with inexperienced directors or producers that get stressed and make really bad choices. Spend a lot of energy feeling creative, and then end doing one kind of cool shoot we didn’t have the right tools to do, and then the rest of the shoot is generic choices. I’d rather shoot for AI director than one of those directors. And i know that AI could direct a movie, so i am only half kidding about this. But give an acting coach an iPad connected to the hive mind and let the AI make creative choices and the the acting coach can focus their energy on the performances.

Basically, we all might like what we do, even if it limits other’s creativity. Bad director’s know that least of all.
 
ahalpert said:
It's just that there are shots that are difficult or impossible for me to pull off manually with adequate accuracy and I wouldn't want that to be the reason I didn't do the shot.
Click to expand...
We may have gotten a little away from my original reply to you.

In no way am i trying to discourage you from auto focus or making films the way you enjoy.

What i was originally saying, is that changing the way a job is done may remove some of the joy. Yes, we are all essentially serving “the story”, but some of use enjoy the physicality of what we are doing too. Once the way things are done change, so will the types of people drawn to the work.
 
ahalpert said:
Maybe.

"Q: You and your cameraman, Wally Pfister, are—along with Steven Spielberg—among the last holdouts who shoot on film in an industry that’s moved to digital. What’s your attraction to the older medium?

A: For the last 10 years, I've felt increasing pressure to stop shooting film and start shooting video, but I've never understood why. It's cheaper to work on film, it's far better looking, it’s the technology that's been known and understood for a hundred years, and it's extremely reliable. I think, truthfully, it boils down to the economic interest of manufacturers and [a production] industry that makes more money through change rather than through maintaining the status quo. We save a lot of money shooting on film and projecting film and not doing digital intermediates. In fact, I've never done a digital intermediate. Photochemically, you can time film with a good timer in three or four passes, which takes about 12 to 14 hours as opposed to seven or eight weeks in a DI suite. That’s the way everyone was doing it 10 years ago, and I've just carried on making films in the way that works best and waiting until there’s a good reason to change. But I haven't seen that reason yet."
Click to expand...

I’d have to see some documentation that distributing actual film for distribution is cheaper than digital.
 
ahalpert said:
Hard to disagree with that. And if that's an important part of his creative process, it's impossible to disagree with.

As for the ritual of focus pullers sweating it out and buzzing focus, I'm not totally sold on that. But I'm losing my train of thought and can't remember if we're talking about AI focus pullers or completely robotic film Production. I wouldn't want to be physically removed from the equation.

The director of Extraction:
View attachment 139038

For the record, I would personally rather shoot on film.
Click to expand...

Just watched that about 10-12 hours ago. It was crazy. One of my reps told me I needed to see it, because the operator was insane. I wasn’t disappointed. Some of the best chases and “oners” I’ve seen.
 
Run&Gun said:
I’d have to see some documentation that distributing actual film for distribution is cheaper than digital.
Click to expand...

Don’t think that’s what’s being argued.

Acquiring film with some film post but digital distribution alongside film distribution has been their model.

JB
 
Run&Gun said:
Just watched that about 10-12 hours ago. It was crazy. One of my reps told me I needed to see it, because the operator was insane. I wasn’t disappointed. Some of the best chases and “oners” I’ve seen.
Click to expand...

Sam Hargrave is the director. And come from being an Aussie stunt co-ordinator.

He conceived and choreographed the fighting and camera operated the oner in Atomic Blonde in the stair well. That was his audition.

JB

JB
 
John Brawley said:
Sam Hargrave is the director. And come from being an Aussie stunt co-ordinator.

He conceived and choreographed the fighting and camera operated the oner in Atomic Blonde in the stair well. That was his audition.

JB

JB
Click to expand...

Haven't seen Atomic Blonde(wanted to, just haven't gotten to it...), but if it is anything like the stairwell and apartment fight and chase scenes in Extraction, then maybe that will be my movie to watch tonight.
 
The Pocket 6K compared with the Alexa Mini. We've seen these kind of tests over the years, but everyone is always so surprised every time.

Mini's noisy at the end.

 
morgan_moore said:
Arri should be bust :)

I make most of my predictions from my experience of shooting stills on a Sinar. My Sinar was a win - with 22mp in 2004 or suchlike I was able to produce digital images for glossy mags and billboards.
I was able to stop buying film nd close my darkroom, and deliver fast. A total win.

22mp? Yep phones do that now.

My sinar was costly and unstable.. but the only 'untethered' camera on the planet that did archive worthy work (nikon D1 was 1.4mp and not archive worthy) I could sell digital as prints or to glossy mags.

Im sure Ive got the dates all wrong but there we go.

But my sinar died with the 5d2 and then phones. Yep Sinar launched a 75mp back I guess.. but no one cared. Sinar died, Bronica Died, Mamiya got bought, Hasselblad got bought... by DJI.

No on really cares above 22mp (stills) apart from some pixel peepers.

Yep the big digibacks are still there for a couple of amateur pixel freaks and guys who genuinely work for Rolex, Rolls Royce and Chanel but really they are nothing in the market.

Luckily for Arri, Sony and Canon and Nikon messed up making movie cameras giving Arri a lifeline.

But with the latest Canons is that over?

I see they need to go super high end or they will be in trouble. Not being a japanese conglomerate I think they are still at risk because they cant acess AI or whatever. Sinar got clobbered when Canon put thier mind to a 22mp camera, Arri has to be careful not to be clobbered now canon make a 4k raw motion picture camera with AF.
Click to expand...

No matter how nice a car Toyota makes, Porsche will still sell their premium driving machines.
 
Run&Gun said:
I’d have to see some documentation that distributing actual film for distribution is cheaper than digital.
Click to expand...

Likewise I want to see the numbers that shooting on film is cheaper than digital. That hasn't been realistically true for a decade unless you're making unrealistic apples to oranges comparisons. And that's not even taking into account Nolan's penchant for IMAX origination, which adds considerably to the cost. But this is certainly a tangent.
 
Mitch Gross said:
No matter how nice a car Toyota makes, Porsche will still sell their premium driving machines.
Click to expand...

For sure some people want a badge. But IMO (in stills) once Canikon got thier sh_it together Hasselblad got a real beating and taken over. Have you ever seen a Hassy on a commercial job?

Its not about money but having AF is just great for many many things. It makes the cheaper cams the better choice. A porsche is (I guess) still better than a Toyota (or faster anyway?)
 
morgan_moore said:
For sure some people want a badge. But IMO (in stills) once Canikon got thier sh_it together Hasselblad got a real beating and taken over. Have you ever seen a Hassy on a commercial job?

Its not about money but having AF is just great for many many things. It makes the cheaper cams the better choice. A porsche is (I guess) still better than a Toyota (or faster anyway?)
Click to expand...

A Porsche is a status symbol. In some ways, that also matters on set, or to directors or clients. Sometimes the high cost is the feature. Plus with that extra premium cost, can't they upgrade the interior whatever and deliver a better user experience?

As for AF - not sure there's an equivalent on cars. (Although my friend with a Maserati was surprised to learn that my Nissan has tire pressure sensors when his car doesn't.)

I read an article a couple years ago - not sure if this is still true - in which the sensor company TowerJazz was quoted as saying they would not add phase detect pixels to their sensors because those did nothing to improve image quality. And I thought - yeah but if your shot's out of focus, there's not much to look at.
 
FWIW, Toyota/Lexus makes no direct competitors for 911 but 718's (a two seater Cayman/Boxter that sell for $60,000-$90,000) US sales were down about 20% in 2019 after the introduction of the new Supra and the announcement of the new Corvette (that hadn't shipped until early 2020). The car mag's verdict is that 718's are still superior cars but may not be worth the extra $30,000 vs a $55,000 Supra.

Likewise, the BMW M340 Competition is better than the Genesis G70 3.3L twin-turbo but not $20,000 better.

And people may still prefer Red over Canon but may not be willing to pay $30,000-$50,000 for Monstro when they can get C500 MKII for under $20,000.
 
Run&Gun said:
Haven't seen Atomic Blonde(wanted to, just haven't gotten to it...), but if it is anything like the stairwell and apartment fight and chase scenes in Extraction, then maybe that will be my movie to watch tonight.
Click to expand...

It's actually even better.
 
ahalpert said:
A Porsche is a status symbol.
Click to expand...

While it might be that too, it is primarily a properly built car.

An old clip that Porsche released comes to mind where they show how they developed the 911 back in the day: not only on roads/tracks, but also in proper terrain to reveal any shortcomings. Can't find the clip now. I think it was on a Porsche mini site due to some milestone.

Porsche struck gold with their 911 body and have managed to keep its icon status over decades by always adapting the design language while staying true to its heritage. I don't think is as easy as it may seem when you look at the "logical progression" of its design through the years.

I hear good things about Toyota too. Wasn't it Toyota who got famous for their manufacturing culture where ANYONE (theoretically down to the guy sweeping the floors) was always encouraged to report any sighting up the chain, if they thought some improvement could be made? Never owned a Toyota, but they are supposed to be reliable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top