Run&Gun
Veteran
Dude, as much as we've butted heads on here, I could not agree with you more than with that.
I'm so sick and tired of the story argument on here. No ****, Sherlock. Yes, you have to have a good story, but that is not my department.
ARRI Launches ALEXA Mini LF
- Thread starter Teddy_Dem
- Start date
Dude, as much as we've butted heads on here, I could not agree with you more than with that.
I'm so sick and tired of the story argument on here. No ****, Sherlock. Yes, you have to have a good story, but that is not my department.
combatentropy
Veteran
For years I've seen so much footage with a red cast. Actually it started with the switch from film to digital. It's no particular camera.
I'm not saying my regrade is perfect. I did it quickly in Gimp. But it just looks clearer and righter to me.
I also curved the highlights more aggressively. They're brighter but softer. I probably could have done it better. But that's the other thing I see in most works. They just aren't doing much highlight roll-off.
I'm not saying my regrade is perfect. I did it quickly in Gimp. But it just looks clearer and righter to me.
I also curved the highlights more aggressively. They're brighter but softer. I probably could have done it better. But that's the other thing I see in most works. They just aren't doing much highlight roll-off.
deltoidjohn
Veteran
As an owner/operator I like Arri because it makes getting good images much easier.
It's not the skillset that matters, it's the equipment.
I know this was said at least a little tongue in cheek, but I do somewhat agree!
The first time I used an Arri (Alexa Mini) I was a bit intimidated, knowing what they were capable of and wondering whether I'd be able to do it justice. I took it home for a few days to do some tests, and quickly found that the camera was doing a lot of the work for me. No complicated setups, no double checking settings every five minutes - the camera just got out of the way and let me shoot. Same goes for the image - it just sang without asking me to use different colour profiles, workflows, LUTS, etc.
I'm sure the Mini LF will be no different and will be a big hit with rental houses.
marvinhello
Well-known member
They obviously went for a glamours, golden late afternoon look. It's a creative decision which I believe was very fitting to the lighting and set design.
Your regrade made the white balance more technically correct, but completely distorted the creative intention of the scene.
Regarding the highlights, ...are you trolling? Because the original has quite nice soft roll-off and yours is just harsh videoy blown-out white patches.
combatentropy
Veteran
I'll try again.
In the original video, the RGB percentages of the highlight on that guy's shirt was 97-89-71. My first regrade was brighter, yes, but still not clipped: 99-97-93. And in my second try, 98-93-87. I don't know how to roll off the highlights without raising the highlights a bit. Well, I could, but the rest of the scene would be too dark.
These are the curves I first used, and as you can see I raised the highlights but did not clip them:
And here are the curves I just now used in the much milder grade.
So yes, the highlights will be brighter. And the tones leading up to the highlights will also be brighter (to wit, the man's blue shirt sleeve). That's the meaning of roll off. It means that the tones right before the final highlight must be less different than them, that is, brighter. And so the tones further down must also be brought upward. And so on, and so forth, until you hit around the midpoint, when the roll-off tapers off.
Look back and forth between their grade and mine, especially at the glass cake display or the face of the man in the hat. To me they look more filmlike in my grades, whatever you think of the highlights on the other man's shirt. I think that the lighting was actually pretty hard on it. It doesn't look that hard in the original because, again, the whole grade is low-contrast.
Now about color, even in candlelit scenes shot on film, they don't have a red cast, they have an orange or yellow one.
This pic I quickly found on the Internet (a Hungarian film called Sunset, by László Nemes, by the way) is much more pleasant to my eye than the sample video's grade. This is not to pick on Arri. The red cast is all over the place in various people's videos.
In the original video, the RGB percentages of the highlight on that guy's shirt was 97-89-71. My first regrade was brighter, yes, but still not clipped: 99-97-93. And in my second try, 98-93-87. I don't know how to roll off the highlights without raising the highlights a bit. Well, I could, but the rest of the scene would be too dark.
These are the curves I first used, and as you can see I raised the highlights but did not clip them:
And here are the curves I just now used in the much milder grade.
So yes, the highlights will be brighter. And the tones leading up to the highlights will also be brighter (to wit, the man's blue shirt sleeve). That's the meaning of roll off. It means that the tones right before the final highlight must be less different than them, that is, brighter. And so the tones further down must also be brought upward. And so on, and so forth, until you hit around the midpoint, when the roll-off tapers off.
Look back and forth between their grade and mine, especially at the glass cake display or the face of the man in the hat. To me they look more filmlike in my grades, whatever you think of the highlights on the other man's shirt. I think that the lighting was actually pretty hard on it. It doesn't look that hard in the original because, again, the whole grade is low-contrast.
Now about color, even in candlelit scenes shot on film, they don't have a red cast, they have an orange or yellow one.
This pic I quickly found on the Internet (a Hungarian film called Sunset, by László Nemes, by the way) is much more pleasant to my eye than the sample video's grade. This is not to pick on Arri. The red cast is all over the place in various people's videos.
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G
Guest
Guest
Arris usual videos are class. This is not.
That homeless guy in the yellow hat annoys me.
THe highlights are gone in a bad way.. in a studio lit environment.. crap DP or crap camera?
I love the focus drop 0.51 right across her great expression . LF DOF perfection!
I bet its a good camera of course
I almost like these demos more, because they show the camera fall apart. The mixed light, the blown highlights, and for some reason, there was some skittish shaky handheld clips in the edit. Lord knows why they’d want this to be their intro to the product, haha.
G
Guest
Guest
They look like and shoot like all the Echo Park DP’s
Blown highlights are the new orange&teal.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Of course - blown highlights are cool.. but you have to know how to do it.. not fry half of the face of one of the talent
This is how it is done.. http://www.sammorganmoore.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/SMM2561.jpg
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
If you didnt clip them why is that histo hugging the wall on the right.
It's true, compared to all the finagling with other cameras Alexas are all really simple, means the pressure's on you to focus on your own work.
I've read people complaining about the lack of a S35 mode right now, but this camera doesn't really have anything to offer in S35, compared to just owning/renting a Mini. You'd get the exact same image. Unfortunately, there isn't a compelling reason to upgrade unless you're going to use LF lenses. I'll admit, the body is incrementally better with the NDs and media, but it's also larger so it's not a win-win situation for buyers. It'll be popular on large format shows though, but it's hard to know what the adoption of large format glass is really going to end up being. Manufacturers pushed 4K, but that has an objectively useful quality for almost ever production (color info, cropping in post, stabilizing, ect) while maintaining the characteristics of the original image. With the large format thing it's huge stylistic shift, hard to know if it'll be as embraced.
G
Guest
Guest
CP.2 prices have gone up. I assume FF35 needs more cinema glass, or tax refund money flooding the market.
With the internet speeds climbing higher and higher and the compression becoming more and more efficient, 6K/8K will be the next frontier. It may not matter in terms of pure quality but will be played for marketing purposes across the board.
With Apple launching its own streaming service, including news, higher resolution may become its tool for standing out of the crowd, with the new 8K ENG cameras properly introduced at the NAB.
With Apple launching its own streaming service, including news, higher resolution may become its tool for standing out of the crowd, with the new 8K ENG cameras properly introduced at the NAB.
NorBro
Major Contributor
If it has already started here (I'm assuming the place where the most cameras on the planet are made) then everyone else will see it sooner rather than later.
https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/12/01/8k-is-now-being-broadcast-in-japan/
https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/12/01/8k-is-now-being-broadcast-in-japan/
filmguy123
Veteran
HD upscales to 4K pretty well (enough to fool most people). I am wondering how HD scales to 8k by comparison?
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
It's a bit unclear to me if S35 could do true 4K, but if so, that would be a big advantage there, meeting resolution specs without needing to move to large format. I'd guess that if there is a non-upressed 4k mode (as opposed to 4.5k) that it would be slightly larger than S35, but smaller than full frame. So, perhaps some S35 lenses would still be compatible at 4k.
You get various improvements over the original Mini for not a lot more money (I heard the LF comes with RAW and anamorphic licenses, which brings the price difference between that and the original Mini much closer), such as the improved viewfinder, on-board audio, and more reliable media (CFast has been the least reliable media I've ever used, so good riddance I say (though I've never had an issue with CFast on Arri, just on C300s)).
If the camera can do both S35 and full frame, then you get a two-for-one camera which can take on a wider range of projects (such as 4K when needed). Canon likes to release various cameras and make sure each one is missing a feature that another has as a low tactic to get you to buy each of their types of cameras, so I'd like to see this tactic avoided by Arri which appears to be the case since it's been mentioned that S35 will be a firmware update. As an owner/op, having a more versatile all-in-one camera is a big benefit over either needing to rent because each camera is so specialized or being forced to buy one of each type of camera.
I think it's a tougher sell to owner/ops who already have the original Mini, but for those in the market for a Mini, the LF is a compelling option for not a lot more money.
__________________
What full frame zooms are out there? I know the Angenieux EZ lenses have a full frame option with the adapter, but I'm not familiar with others.
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combatentropy
Veteran
The histogram in the Curves window in GIMP seems to be a before, not after. It doesn't move when I move the lines. And anyway here it is of the original image, no curvature yet done by me.
After I did the grade, I used an eyedropper tool on the man's blue shirt, and the highlights were still below pure white. I didn't have much room to work with, though, using an 8-bit screenshot of a Youtube video of a bad grade. As someone said earlier, about the original:
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
I'm betting the price tag on that new Codex Media ain't going to be cheap. Simply because it's Codex.
I'm sure it will sell/rent well. For lower budgets that can afford the camera, there's lots of choices for EF FF lenses. On the highest end for PL there's the ARRI Signature, Zeiss Supreme, Cooke S7/i and Leica Thalia.
Calling a FF camera LF is still a funny bit of snobbery toward still cameras, ARRI lol.
Demo video- it was OK, not nearly as impressive as this LF demo (which the Mini LF could of course also match):
I noticed a lot of camera operator shots holding a wobbly camera that cut to obvious gimbal/steadicam footage; only one wobbly handheld cut to actual footage (chandelier shot). You'd think they'd be super careful when doing a demo video that DPs (and similar folks) would notice these things (which aren't helpful in promoting a product).
These Sony Venice demos with 6K => 4K (True 4K) impress me more on the Ultimate Detail + Ultra Shallow DOF + Pretty Good Color (for Sony haha):
Detail and color is amazing (lol troll responses- wonder what camera they own- we can probably guess accurately lol ).
For something high end with a good budget, I'd certainly test the Alexa Mini LF vs. the Sony Venice. Both excellent cameras and one camera could be better than the other depending on the kinds of shots needed. For faces/skin/highlights ARRI probably leads, for landscape/nature and high detail + mixed high detail and soft shallow DOF (really an interesting/contrasting combination), Sony wins.
Nice to see top of the line cameras continuing to get smaller, lighter, and more versatile. Looking forward to the LeicAlexa FF point & shoot
Calling a FF camera LF is still a funny bit of snobbery toward still cameras, ARRI lol.
Demo video- it was OK, not nearly as impressive as this LF demo (which the Mini LF could of course also match):
I noticed a lot of camera operator shots holding a wobbly camera that cut to obvious gimbal/steadicam footage; only one wobbly handheld cut to actual footage (chandelier shot). You'd think they'd be super careful when doing a demo video that DPs (and similar folks) would notice these things (which aren't helpful in promoting a product).
These Sony Venice demos with 6K => 4K (True 4K) impress me more on the Ultimate Detail + Ultra Shallow DOF + Pretty Good Color (for Sony haha):
).For something high end with a good budget, I'd certainly test the Alexa Mini LF vs. the Sony Venice. Both excellent cameras and one camera could be better than the other depending on the kinds of shots needed. For faces/skin/highlights ARRI probably leads, for landscape/nature and high detail + mixed high detail and soft shallow DOF (really an interesting/contrasting combination), Sony wins.
Nice to see top of the line cameras continuing to get smaller, lighter, and more versatile. Looking forward to the LeicAlexa FF point & shoot