Arri AMIRA
- Thread starter sebben
- Start date
Why would anyone settle for a Dragon when they could have an Alexa?
I agree this form factor is ideal. Most serious ops and ACs I work with consider the current Alexa to be the strongest camera ergonomically (and generally hate dSLRs/the C300), but the Alexa is a pain to operate handheld and the size, fully outfitted, makes me uncomfortable. I dislike the Alexa's poor battery life, too. So I'm a dSLR fan.
That said, my C100 (essentially a dSLR in terms of form factor) feels awful handheld with a long lens, though I like it with a short zoom... Arri's form factor and weight here seem ideal for most lenses, and I think everyone is going to love it, people moving up from dSLRs and people moving down from F65s alike...
The lack of RAW is not a big deal. Posting with it is a nightmare and the file sizes are too big. LOG C is perfect in Prores. The quality of the sensor and gain path make Arri's prores way more flexible than REDCODE (which can't handle foliage or fine skin detail all that well, anyway) for posting any competently shot footage. The latitude is insane... I know it's the DP not the camera, but when Alexa footage so consistently outstrips footage from any other system, you know something is up. The Alexa is so well-designed it elevates the DP's game and makes post easy, too. If camera doesn't matter why is anything shot competently on the Alexa immediately identifiable, as is footage originating on film (which I still prefer best tbh)? Saying it's all the DP doesn't give Arri's brilliant engineers enough credit. It's all the DP up to the level of competence, past that lenses and cameras matter quite a lot!
I love Arri's FFs, the M18, etc. and I'm sure I'd love their lenses if I had the money to try them. Their gear is so operator-friendly. This is going to be great, except every rich kid will own an Alexa now!
CFast is thus far faster and cheaper to build than XQD. It is simply an SSD in a compact flash form factor.
Liam Hall
Veteran
I read the Sony info after a bottle of wine, but I'm pretty sure the centre cut on F55 is to enable S16mm PL glass. B4 will be via an optical adapter, so no centre cut required.
The more I read about this camera, the more I like it. It's a great design.
It's best feature: the S35 sensor.
It's worst feature: the S35 sensor.
The images will no doubt be incredible, with the narrow depth of field and low light ability that only an S35 sensor can deliver.
But the lens prices - ouch! The Fujinon 19-90 shown in the Arri promo video is $38,000!!! And if this will be a "documentary," one-person operator camera as advertised, it needs a power zoom lens with a hand grip.
What will be the crop factor (or is that magnification factor?) when using a B4 2/3" lens? Isn't it 2.8X?
Are there any cheaper options for a power zoom lens?
It's best feature: the S35 sensor.
It's worst feature: the S35 sensor.
The images will no doubt be incredible, with the narrow depth of field and low light ability that only an S35 sensor can deliver.
But the lens prices - ouch! The Fujinon 19-90 shown in the Arri promo video is $38,000!!! And if this will be a "documentary," one-person operator camera as advertised, it needs a power zoom lens with a hand grip.
What will be the crop factor (or is that magnification factor?) when using a B4 2/3" lens? Isn't it 2.8X?
Are there any cheaper options for a power zoom lens?
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david.rhsc
Member
Not really, but those can always be a rental item. The way I understood the demo video on cinema5D was that the mount on the Amira body was field swappable (4 bolts to swap the mount out) so you could always run the EF mount as your everyday lens, and swap in the PL when the job calls for it. It's possible that I misunderstood that bit though. The product animation on the site implies the same though.
You would have to add a handle and would not have the servo (though you could rig one pretty easily, imo), but the lenses are 10x less than those Cabrios. Hell, now that I write that out it sounds more appealing as a way of reducing the entry barrier. Damn, the more I think about this camera, the more I want it.
I can't imagine wanting (personally) to do the B4/optical adapter thing - though many people who already have the lenses will want that mount. I think if you don't already have the glass, skip the B4 and just invest in the PL, even though that would cost more. I suppose the lenses would be smaller/lighter, but the Abel Cine adapter that does B4 to m4/3 is an absolute beast and terribly expensive. Really, the B4 option is there for shooters with an investment in those lenses, not shooters coming into the form factor from scratch.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
What a bunch of FUD.
1st of all, with the price of HDs plummeting, storage of raw files is a non issue.
2nd, the flexibility of raw, whether Redcode or Arri Raw is unparallelled in post.
3rd of all, RedCode can handle fine skin and detail just fine.
http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1304136624.jpg
That's a picture of the readout from an Epic and Alexa shooting with the new Leica lenses, which are the new perfect.
So which of these is Epic and which Alexa?
G
Guest
Guest
I'll bite: top is Epic, and Bottom is Alexa.
(BTW, it is a 50/50 chance of being right, so personally guessing right doesn't prove much unless the number of correctly identifying the images are high. A relatively 50/50 split in answers would better make mcgee's point.)
(BTW, it is a 50/50 chance of being right, so personally guessing right doesn't prove much unless the number of correctly identifying the images are high. A relatively 50/50 split in answers would better make mcgee's point.)
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If your output is highly compressed JPEGs and all you shoot is low dynamic range scenes, then yes both cameras can be made to have a similar look. Red footage can be graded well, I agree, but it HAS to be because the default looks are so messed up. Poor midtone tonality, chunky grain, and magenta highlights are just the beginning.
If your output is in motion and intended for tv, high res youtube, or theaters, the difference is huge.
I can't judge between those highly-manipulated low-res stills. I can tell the difference immediately when watching an entire feature, though it's easy to bury a B cam shot here and there with enough work in post. (Same as apparently Avengers has 5D shots in it and I've watched the blu ray and could not even begin to guess which.)
Flexibility in post is irrelevant compared with speed for most commercial projects. Yes, Skyfall was shot on raw (though even Deakins says he could barely tell the difference between prores and raw and it was only due to finding a smaller external recorder that he didn't shoot handheld in prores, wheras the Epic b-cam stuff looked terrible to him), and inexperienced owner/ops will shoot personal projects on raw because they'd rather choose in post rather than on set the same way we see so many "photoshop photographers" popping up in stills, but most tv is done in prores and will continue to be done that way. On the very high and very low end I suppose raw makes some sense.
I'm not saying Epic footage can't look good (Prometheus looked great), I'm just saying, compare the Hobbit with Lord of the Rings... Epic has a cheap look, even with a lot of post, and handles high key situations poorly.
From a purely financial perspective, all of these options are bad choices since the market is flooded, but the Epic as a brand is pretty strong, so there's that. Inexperienced producers still like Red, but quickly the Alexa, C300 even!, and F55 are gaining ground...
Andrew Stone
Veteran
This camera looks remarkable. Watched the videos earlier today and have been agog ever since. For any of us who have been struggling to piece together a shoulder operated S35 camera for the past two years, this solves pretty much all the problems.
Just the functionality underneath and on top of the camera solves what has been (at least) a several thousand dollar ordeal of kludging together the "perfect rig" to go with the camera. Using their dovetail design was brilliant as well, not just for ease of adjustment but to remove all the gak in a few seconds when you want to mount it on a steadicam or a jib/crane. Even lowmode steadicam is a snap with the the dovetail grooves on top.
I wonder what the actual power consumption is and of course the price.
Amazing piece of industrial design and obviously went through lots of real user testing, unlike other manufacturers who claim they did. Wow.
Just the functionality underneath and on top of the camera solves what has been (at least) a several thousand dollar ordeal of kludging together the "perfect rig" to go with the camera. Using their dovetail design was brilliant as well, not just for ease of adjustment but to remove all the gak in a few seconds when you want to mount it on a steadicam or a jib/crane. Even lowmode steadicam is a snap with the the dovetail grooves on top.
I wonder what the actual power consumption is and of course the price.
Amazing piece of industrial design and obviously went through lots of real user testing, unlike other manufacturers who claim they did. Wow.
Audio Quality is important to me so not needing an external recorder would be great on the road.
Multi-channel audio
AMIRA is equipped with flexible audio options that are suitable for any type of production. Again, access to controls and connections is easy, causing minimal disturbance to the camera operator. The camera allows 4-channel, 48 kHz, 24-bit PCM recording with micro- phone, microphone + phantom power, line level and AES3 digital inputs, all of which can be routed to any recording channel.
Audio levels can be balanced manually, with a limiter,
or in automatic mode, and low/high pass filters permit recording quality to be optimized in special environments. Audio functions have their own control/display panel, and through Bluetooth functionality recordings can be monitored or even annotated on a separate track.
Multi-channel audio
AMIRA is equipped with flexible audio options that are suitable for any type of production. Again, access to controls and connections is easy, causing minimal disturbance to the camera operator. The camera allows 4-channel, 48 kHz, 24-bit PCM recording with micro- phone, microphone + phantom power, line level and AES3 digital inputs, all of which can be routed to any recording channel.
Audio levels can be balanced manually, with a limiter,
or in automatic mode, and low/high pass filters permit recording quality to be optimized in special environments. Audio functions have their own control/display panel, and through Bluetooth functionality recordings can be monitored or even annotated on a separate track.
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Reaching for the popcorn to hear how much that's going to cost.
Is the F55 really ENG-suited enough to be cross-shopped with this, even if Arri overprices it? That's kinda like cross-shopping a view camera and a rangefinder, isn't it?
Why not? F55 looks to be just as much "ENG-suited" as this Arri
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I shot on my (rigged/vlock/DP6) FS100 for 5 hours yesterday. I was thinking about the Ameria as I wake up this morning with a sore shoulder and its 'claims' to be a doco camera..
I think the Ameria is wonderful but ..
-it is still way too heavy
-without a digital zoom, one still lacks range with pretty much any lens (apart from B4 conversions)
The buttons - im sure that the menu is a class above other cameras but I very much doubt you could (for example) change sound levels mid shot without disturbing framing
The buttons are still a mile from being usable/findable with the eye in the VF
Focus and Stability.
The truth is a shot should (in general) be sharp and in focus, the Amera appears to do very little to aid these basic requirements
It is basically a camera that models itself on a film camera and ignores most of the technical achievements of the last 5 years.
S
I think the Ameria is wonderful but ..
-it is still way too heavy
-without a digital zoom, one still lacks range with pretty much any lens (apart from B4 conversions)
The buttons - im sure that the menu is a class above other cameras but I very much doubt you could (for example) change sound levels mid shot without disturbing framing
The buttons are still a mile from being usable/findable with the eye in the VF
Focus and Stability.
The truth is a shot should (in general) be sharp and in focus, the Amera appears to do very little to aid these basic requirements
It is basically a camera that models itself on a film camera and ignores most of the technical achievements of the last 5 years.
S
I agree. Whilst the Amira is very cleverly designed, the actual camera body still is a box like the F55. It's the dove tail plate system of the Amira that makes the camera so flexible, but the Sony F5/55 can and are being used as 'ENG' cameras. It would only take a 3rd party company to design a tool-less adjustable baseplate to give the F55 the same level of flexibility as the Amira.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Morgan, I like you. I like reading your posts. One day, no doubt, I'll by you a beer. That said, I couldn't agree less with your comment here. I'd say, this is the first large sensor camera designed with both the operator and professional workflows in mind. It ticks a lot of boxes for me.
David W. Jones
Veteran
Well, I will not be shooting docs or eng with this camera. I will be using it to shoot TV commercials, which this camera is perfectly suited for. I absolutely love working with the Alexa, which is the most ergonomically correct camera I have used in a very very long time, and as soon as the Amira is available for rent, I will put it through its paces. And if all goes well, it will be my new camera. I was waiting to see what Canon was going to replace the C300 with, and if the would offer changeable lens mounts, but it looks like Arri has hit a home run with this camera.