Are we going to get true 30p?

J

Jackson Miller

Well-known member
So I don't know much about this exactly but correct me if I am wrong. The 5d shoots 30p, while the standard is actually 29.97p which is "True 30p" or maybe a more appropriate thing to call it would be "Standard 30p." This can cause issues with audio syncing as well as when using multiple cameras. To me this is one more confusing thing that makes me wanna switch over to the 7d. It seems like all of the framerates are screwed up. I mean even when we get 24p, will it even be as nice looking as that on the 7d which has two chips and also has less jello? And after all of our campaigning for 24p, we ignored the littler but annoying 30p problem... Does anyone think they will have fixed it in this update? I really doubt it. Not enough people complained. But it is a problem. Right? Have you experienced issues? I sadly have not had much time to use my 5d even though I have owned it for months (shame on me... kinda).

Finally... it has no 60p. Which I REAAAALLLY need/want. So for me, I am either going to sell my 5d and get a 7d and new lens, or I am going to buy a GH1 body for 60p. And I really can't afford that at all. I could if I had to by selling some stuff... but idk. I have been leaning towards 7d. And then I got the idea tonight to get a GH1 body... ahh. Help me please. And also offer thoughts on the above issues.

Thanks.
 
We don't know the answer, and won't know until the firmware is out. Which could be anywhere from three weeks to six months.

If you REAAAAALLLLY need/want 60p, then the GH1 body is probably the best choice. The GH1's 720/60p is embarrassingly better than the 7D's, so even if the 5D gets 60p, if it works like the 7D's it may not be what you want to use.
 
Jackson Miller said:
So I don't know much about this exactly but correct me if I am wrong. The 5d shoots 30p, while the standard is actually 29.97p which is "True 30p" or maybe a more appropriate thing to call it would be "Standard 30p." This can cause issues with audio syncing as well as when using multiple cameras. To me this is one more confusing thing that makes me wanna switch over to the 7d. It seems like all of the framerates are screwed up. I mean even when we get 24p, will it even be as nice looking as that on the 7d which has two chips and also has less jello? And after all of our campaigning for 24p, we ignored the littler but annoying 30p problem... Does anyone think they will have fixed it in this update? I really doubt it. Not enough people complained. But it is a problem. Right? Have you experienced issues? I sadly have not had much time to use my 5d even though I have owned it for months (shame on me... kinda).

Finally... it has no 60p. Which I REAAAALLLY need/want. So for me, I am either going to sell my 5d and get a 7d and new lens, or I am going to buy a GH1 body for 60p. And I really can't afford that at all. I could if I had to by selling some stuff... but idk. I have been leaning towards 7d. And then I got the idea tonight to get a GH1 body... ahh. Help me please. And also offer thoughts on the above issues.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of options for great looking 60p if you reaaaaaallly need it ... but I assume you really want it on your 5D. At this point everything is speculation except for 24p coming. I would just sit back, relax, enjoy the holiday season and don't get your panties in too much of a bunch as we will see very soon what the 5D gets. Nobody on this board or any other is going to be able to give you an answer that isn't speculation :)
 
BradM said:
I would just sit back, relax, enjoy the holiday season and don't get your panties in too much of a bunch as we will see very soon what the 5D gets.
Click to expand...
Except that "very soon" could be as long as six months... or it might be three weeks. We don't know.

Nobody on this board or any other is going to be able to give you an answer that isn't speculation :)
Click to expand...
That is the truth.
 
Barry_Green said:
Except that "very soon" could be as long as six months... or it might be three weeks. We don't know.
Click to expand...

Yes very true ... although even 6 months is not long time considering that waiting is one of the better choices for potential DSLR customers looking for video, when clearly no one camera can do everything you need properly. Unless you need to shoot on a small budget now ... holding out might be a smartest idea.

but yes it could be a bit longer wait for some to make a choice.
 
Jackson Miller said:
So I don't know much about this exactly but correct me if I am wrong. The 5d shoots 30p, while the standard is actually 29.97p which is "True 30p" or maybe a more appropriate thing to call it would be "Standard 30p." This can cause issues with audio syncing as well as when using multiple cameras. To me this is one more confusing thing that makes me wanna switch over to the 7d. It seems like all of the framerates are screwed up. I mean even when we get 24p, will it even be as nice looking as that on the 7d which has two chips and also has less jello? And after all of our campaigning for 24p, we ignored the littler but annoying 30p problem... Does anyone think they will have fixed it in this update? I really doubt it. Not enough people complained. But it is a problem. Right? Have you experienced issues? I sadly have not had much time to use my 5d even though I have owned it for months (shame on me... kinda).

Finally... it has no 60p. Which I REAAAALLLY need/want. So for me, I am either going to sell my 5d and get a 7d and new lens, or I am going to buy a GH1 body for 60p. And I really can't afford that at all. I could if I had to by selling some stuff... but idk. I have been leaning towards 7d. And then I got the idea tonight to get a GH1 body... ahh. Help me please. And also offer thoughts on the above issues.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Just FYI the difference between 30 and 29.97 will in no way affect sound synch so long as you don't keep your audio equipment and camera running indefinately. I'd guess it would take about 10 minutes of running both for them continuously for any synch problems to become apparent (assuming your audio equipment was in fact recording at the "true 30p" speed)
 
Barry_Green said:
We don't know the answer, and won't know until the firmware is out. Which could be anywhere from three weeks to six months.

If you REAAAAALLLLY need/want 60p, then the GH1 body is probably the best choice. The GH1's 720/60p is embarrassingly better than the 7D's, so even if the 5D gets 60p, if it works like the 7D's it may not be what you want to use.
Click to expand...

Hey Barry why is the GH1's 60p better? I haven't seen a lot of GH1 60p footage and none in person. Thanks.
 
Chamber005 said:
Just FYI the difference between 30 and 29.97 will in no way affect sound synch so long as you don't keep your audio equipment and camera running indefinately.
Click to expand...

Just FYI, in no way does chamber know of what he writes ; )
The "sync" will slip 3 hundredths of a frame every second.....so in sixty seconds you'll slip 180/100th of a frame....or roughly a frame and a half. In two minutes, about 3 frames.
That's pretty noticeable.....
 
I didn't realize audio had a framerate and I also didn't realize it was "synced" to any vDSLR's video.
 
Audio doesn't have a frame rate.

But what happens is that you don't normally edit 30.000fps video as 30.000 fps, because that's not a video-legal frame rate. So you end up editing it at 29.97fps, which is the wrong playback speed. So an hour's worth of video doesn't run for an hour anymore, it runs for about 62 minutes.

Which throws your audio totally off sync.
 
Barry_Green said:
Audio doesn't have a frame rate.
Click to expand...


Agreed . . . . but . . .

It doesn't effectively have a framerate - well nothing worth worrying about, but technically a piece of 48kHz sound does has a 'framerate' of 48,000 frames per second.

Or once you factor in the Nyquist frequency (you need at least two sample points to generate a 'sound' (more correctly a single wave)) 48kHz sound gives you 24,000 frames per second.

But . . . . 24p video footage or 30p or 25p or 60p (or whatever) doesn't really care what the sample rate of it's audio is - so it's perfectly ok to run 25p video and 96kHz audio . . . or 29.97p with 32kHz audio . . . the video doesn't give a **** (a technical term).

So Barry_Green is right, when push comes to shove audio effectively is free from frame rates.




Barry_Green said:
But what happens is that you don't normally edit 30.000fps video as 30.000 fps, because that's not a video-legal frame rate. So you end up editing it at 29.97fps, which is the wrong playback speed. So an hour's worth of video doesn't run for an hour anymore, it runs for about 62 minutes.

Which throws your audio totally off sync.
Click to expand...

You just need to convert the sample rate to the correct (for your needs) rate.
 
Thanks guys. After watching the canon press release video thing, I am definitely going to wait before I make any decisions. I honestly don't quite get all of these complicated framerate things as far as 30p and 29.97p and... ehh I need sleep.
 
Barry_Green said:
We don't know the answer, and won't know until the firmware is out. Which could be anywhere from three weeks to six months.

If you REAAAAALLLLY need/want 60p, then the GH1 body is probably the best choice. The GH1's 720/60p is embarrassingly better than the 7D's, so even if the 5D gets 60p, if it works like the 7D's it may not be what you want to use.
Click to expand...

I don't know, I have seen some strange, pretty muddy footage from the Gh1, with banding and artifacts as well....
 
I think most of those problems are in 1080p. It's 720p mode was always great and never a problem (unless you have one and are talking from personal experience).
 
Evolve said:
Just FYI, in no way does chamber know of what he writes ; )
The "sync" will slip 3 hundredths of a frame every second.....so in sixty seconds you'll slip 180/100th of a frame....or roughly a frame and a half. In two minutes, about 3 frames.
That's pretty noticeable.....
Click to expand...

Thank you for your clarification :thumbup:

Can you give me a hint how to use 5DII Footage with external audio.

Do i just put it on a 29.97 timeline (i use Premiere CS4) and ad the audio from my external recorder?

Is the 5DmkII audio really 30fps or is it only labeled as 30 but actually 29.97?

Thank you
 
The 5D is *not* 29.97, it's 30.000, and that's why the audio sync issues come into play.

So if you edit it frame-for-frame on a 29.97 timeline, you'll find your audio slipping.

If you're outputting to the web, you should just use a 30.000 timeline for 5D footage.
 
Philip Bloom has a good workflow tutorial on re timing your footage also syncing with external audio source's as we all know the internal audio on the 5D is rubbish.

Derek
 
Referring to the 29.97 or 30 fps issue. I talked to Canon TEch USA Jan 18 and he told me while he had not seen it, his understanding was that the frame rates for the 5D MKii will be exactly the same as the 7d.

I then called a contact I have in the DSLR marketing department (canon usa) and he told me the same thing. Frame rates will be the same as the 7D.

I had been assuming they would be the same, but it was nice to hear it from Canon.

I of course asked the a magical question of when, how soon etc etc ... and the answer was I don't know.
 
Last edited:
Barry_Green said:
The 5D is *not* 29.97, it's 30.000, and that's why the audio sync issues come into play.

So if you edit it frame-for-frame on a 29.97 timeline, you'll find your audio slipping.

If you're outputting to the web, you should just use a 30.000 timeline for 5D footage.
Click to expand...

Thank you Barry,
now i got it. Sound is "realtime" while 30fps footage on 29.97 timeline is played slower.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top