Aputure 300d
- Thread starter mproust14
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rob norton
Veteran
Thanks yoclay!
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Hoping to see the 300d at Cine Gear & may be up for a Group Buy after.
Told myself I'm only buying bi-color, or RGB+W, LEDs from now on, but if the 300d is everything they claim it might sway me.
Told myself I'm only buying bi-color, or RGB+W, LEDs from now on, but if the 300d is everything they claim it might sway me.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Will report back if I make Cine Gear, but may be out-of-country on a gig.
starcentral
Veteran
Looks amazing and for only around $200… and especially compared to Dedo prices
As for the 300d being brighter than a joker 800HMI… that would definitely be nice if true!
Akos Baranya
Active member
Looks amazing and for only around $200… and especially compared to Dedo prices
As for the 300d being brighter than a joker 800HMI… that would definitely be nice if true!
It probably isn't, LED is watt for watt about as bright as HMI, maybe you get a bit more out of it, but 2.5x is really stretching it.
Erik Naso
Veteran
I asked Ted about output and he verified the rating is with the fresnel attached however we shall see when it ships.
Grug
Veteran
Yeah, I'd be interested to know whether that's at equivalent beam-angles.
But I can believe the 2k tungsten claim as being plausible. I have two Area48 softlights, and at 160w they're roughly equivalent to a 1kw tungsten flood light, two of them combined come pretty close to matching the output from a 2k blonde, so I can imagine a 300w LED achieving something similar in terms of raw output.
scotchtape
Active member
Just wondering how loud the fan is going to be...
Phil Rhodes
Well-known member
That would require nearly seven times efficiency improvement between tungsten and LED, which is not plausible, assuming the same style of housing. Other types of housing may differ, but then you should be comparing the 300D to something like a Blonde, which is more powerful than a 2K fresnel.
Akos Baranya
Active member
I'm not knocking Aputure for the lamp btw, a 300 Watt cob led for this price with the aputure quality is great, I'm knocking the whole of the industry for overstating their stats. There is always some omitted detail about these comparisons which means they compare the most favorable rating of their light (a tighter angle perhaps or a closer measurement point) with some spec of the bigger lamp that is measured differently (most lamps dont seem to have light output measured at half a meter, the closest I see for a joker 800 is 3 feet).
In this case, he is comparing it to a joker 800. He says the light output from the 300d at half a meter is 82000 lux (no angle specified). That is about 7618 fc. If you look at the specs for a joker 800, you will find that the output is the following at 3 feet, so roughly double the distance of the aputure:
Spot 232,667fc
Medium 35,000fc
Wide 20,122fc
Super Wide 7,300fc
again, no angle specified for the aputure, maybe he meant that the output is like that naked, maybe with a fresnel, but you see that this is comparing output of one light at 50 cm to another at 91 cm (light falloff is not linear so that distance counts even more, specifically between these two, the light that is more distant will cover an area more than 3x the size) and we are getting better specs (better assuming the aputure stat is with a lens) from the joker that is farther away.
if we do go ahead and assume the aputure stat is naked, and factor in the difference in distance, you will find it is probably watt for watt the same as an HMI. Which is a nice thing btw, no need to relamp these and you don't need ballasts and you can dim them, plus its cheaper than one of those anyway.
And again, not knocking aputure as a manufacturer, I am knocking the industry as a whole for doing this, there is nothing wrong with saying you have a ~300-400W HMI equivalent right here, but obviously you wont say it if the guy next door is massaging his stats to make his thingie look bigger.
In this case, he is comparing it to a joker 800. He says the light output from the 300d at half a meter is 82000 lux (no angle specified). That is about 7618 fc. If you look at the specs for a joker 800, you will find that the output is the following at 3 feet, so roughly double the distance of the aputure:
Spot 232,667fc
Medium 35,000fc
Wide 20,122fc
Super Wide 7,300fc
again, no angle specified for the aputure, maybe he meant that the output is like that naked, maybe with a fresnel, but you see that this is comparing output of one light at 50 cm to another at 91 cm (light falloff is not linear so that distance counts even more, specifically between these two, the light that is more distant will cover an area more than 3x the size) and we are getting better specs (better assuming the aputure stat is with a lens) from the joker that is farther away.
if we do go ahead and assume the aputure stat is naked, and factor in the difference in distance, you will find it is probably watt for watt the same as an HMI. Which is a nice thing btw, no need to relamp these and you don't need ballasts and you can dim them, plus its cheaper than one of those anyway.
And again, not knocking aputure as a manufacturer, I am knocking the industry as a whole for doing this, there is nothing wrong with saying you have a ~300-400W HMI equivalent right here, but obviously you wont say it if the guy next door is massaging his stats to make his thingie look bigger.
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Bern Caughey
Veteran
Perhaps Erik can chime in to how loud the fans will be. Aputure is using the same fan from the 120d, but two of them for the 300d, so imagine it will be relatively quiet.
As to not having a ballast, it does have a large controller, & if using AC, a seperate ballast designed to sit on the floor. Seems a case designed to hold the 300d will be just as large as one for a Joker 800.
ozmorphasis
Well-known member
...and they apparently are set to different speeds so that their hum frequency doesn't stack. I still don't own a COB120, but fan noise has always been described as extremely quiet from all the reviews I've seen.
keithlango
Well-known member
I can barely detect fan noise on my 120d's when my ears are like 10 inches from it. From a typical use distance of 1 meter or greater fan noise is a complete non-factor. The ambient room tone is more pronounced.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Side story...
My favorite Gaffer has a great temperament, & I've never seen him get the slightest bit mad at anyone. He owns a few trucks, & keeps all his gear in top shape.
On one high stress job he was working with a new SoundPerson, who started walking around pointing his microphone at the various HMIs, & complaining how noisy they were all within earshot of the Director, & Clients.
The Gaffer's response was that the SoundPerson should point his mic at the Talent, & not the lights.
My favorite Gaffer has a great temperament, & I've never seen him get the slightest bit mad at anyone. He owns a few trucks, & keeps all his gear in top shape.
On one high stress job he was working with a new SoundPerson, who started walking around pointing his microphone at the various HMIs, & complaining how noisy they were all within earshot of the Director, & Clients.
The Gaffer's response was that the SoundPerson should point his mic at the Talent, & not the lights.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Wow, not a very bright sound mixer. Talk about alienating the crew, causing dissent. Place the mic where the talent is, then listen. If there is a problem, legitimate concern, to be expressed discreetly to the gaffer and first AD if it is holding things up. But walking around, pointing a mic at HMIs, in front of Director and Clients, that's not a very smart move. Sets run on a chain of command for reason.
LochnessDigital
Active member
Okay. Let's do some math.
Joker 800 with the Super Wide lens at 3 feet has a beam angle with a diameter of 2.4 feet. Using trig, you can calculate that the light has a beam angle of 43.6 degrees. So at 3 feet, we're looking at 7300 fc, 78577 lux. Calculating lumens is as easy, just multiply the surface area of the beam coverage (in meters) by the lux. Assuming a totally flat beam coverage (this is important for below), then we're looking at 33,000 lumens.
I asked Cinema5D to clarify in their article about the Aputure light and the specs they came back to me was 31,000 lux, or 2880 fc at 1 meter with the 60 degree reflector.
Using the inverse square law, that means at 3 feet exactly (0.9144 meters), the 300D should read closer to 37076 lux, 3444 fc. Using trig again, you can use the 60 degree beam angle and the distance of 3 feet to calculate that the diameter of the beam will be 3.46 feet. Using geometry we can calculate surface area and multiply that by the intensity to get 32,463 lumens.
Now, Aputure also clarified that they designed the 60 degree reflector to provide the flattest beam spread from edge to edge as they can with little/no falloff. I can't say the same for the Joker. Anyone who's used one, does it have a hot spot in the middle? Because if it does, then it's total output is even less, because the fall off means it isn't lighting with 100% intensity across the surface area.
So now you're thinking, well the Joker is still brighter because it has a narrower beam angle. This is objectively true. It's still a stop brighter. But let's talk about one scenario you might run into.
Say you want to fill a 4x4 frame of diffusion. Because of the beam angles, you have to have the Joker at a distance of 5 feet. Inverse square law again means you're hitting the 4x4' with 2628 fc, 28288 lux. The Aputure can fill a frame from only 3.46 feet away. The intensity hitting the frame is 2583 fc, 27807 lux.
Of course, that doesn't tell the whole story between these two lights. The Joker has a spot lens that brings the beam angle to an impressive 4~ degree beam angle. The Aputure can only go down to 12 degrees with the fresnel. The Joker is $7K for the kit. Aputure is gonna try and stay under $1K.
So the point? It's complicated.
But I'm personally very excited for the Aputure light.
Joker 800 with the Super Wide lens at 3 feet has a beam angle with a diameter of 2.4 feet. Using trig, you can calculate that the light has a beam angle of 43.6 degrees. So at 3 feet, we're looking at 7300 fc, 78577 lux. Calculating lumens is as easy, just multiply the surface area of the beam coverage (in meters) by the lux. Assuming a totally flat beam coverage (this is important for below), then we're looking at 33,000 lumens.
I asked Cinema5D to clarify in their article about the Aputure light and the specs they came back to me was 31,000 lux, or 2880 fc at 1 meter with the 60 degree reflector.
Using the inverse square law, that means at 3 feet exactly (0.9144 meters), the 300D should read closer to 37076 lux, 3444 fc. Using trig again, you can use the 60 degree beam angle and the distance of 3 feet to calculate that the diameter of the beam will be 3.46 feet. Using geometry we can calculate surface area and multiply that by the intensity to get 32,463 lumens.
Now, Aputure also clarified that they designed the 60 degree reflector to provide the flattest beam spread from edge to edge as they can with little/no falloff. I can't say the same for the Joker. Anyone who's used one, does it have a hot spot in the middle? Because if it does, then it's total output is even less, because the fall off means it isn't lighting with 100% intensity across the surface area.
So now you're thinking, well the Joker is still brighter because it has a narrower beam angle. This is objectively true. It's still a stop brighter. But let's talk about one scenario you might run into.
Say you want to fill a 4x4 frame of diffusion. Because of the beam angles, you have to have the Joker at a distance of 5 feet. Inverse square law again means you're hitting the 4x4' with 2628 fc, 28288 lux. The Aputure can fill a frame from only 3.46 feet away. The intensity hitting the frame is 2583 fc, 27807 lux.
Of course, that doesn't tell the whole story between these two lights. The Joker has a spot lens that brings the beam angle to an impressive 4~ degree beam angle. The Aputure can only go down to 12 degrees with the fresnel. The Joker is $7K for the kit. Aputure is gonna try and stay under $1K.
So the point? It's complicated.
But I'm personally very excited for the Aputure light.