Run&Gun
Veteran
But what percentage of the overall computer using population really does that or even considers doing it? I’m guessing somewhere in the sub-1% neighborhood.
Apple dumps Intel and shows Final Cut Pro on new Mac with Apple CPU !
- Thread starter joe1946
- Start date
But what percentage of the overall computer using population really does that or even considers doing it? I’m guessing somewhere in the sub-1% neighborhood.
scorsesefan
Veteran
I actually did modify the Mac Pro (pre-2012) quite a bit. I swapped out the RAM, hard drives, GPU and optical drives. This was the last user-modifiable Mac that I'm aware of that was actually affordable (the new Mac Pros start at 6K). I'm by no means a computer nerd, but there is a sizeable community of editors out there that want the ability to modify their systems...
Run&Gun
Veteran
I’m sure there are, but even if you rounded them all up, it would still be a very tiny fraction compared to the general, overall computer using population that couldn’t care less about being able to crack their computer open and tinker with it like a car from the 1950’s. And I’m not saying that I don’t think the end user shouldn’t be able to or maybe there shouldn’t be a “true pro line” that allows that, but how many computers do you think Apple is selling to the average person that doesn’t care and just wants to take it out of the box and it “just works” vs computers to people who want to work on it themselves, in all the various ways that can mean?
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Agreed. And people will keep paying because the value that these machines provide is far above the cost. As long as they function. (Just like cars.)
That being said, we are each entitled to advocate for our own personal needs.
groveChuck
U-matic Member
Didn't the article say the ARMs are SoC, therefore less likely to be modifiable?
And speaking of modifiable, what percent of PC users still use desktops? (overall, not power users).
And speaking of modifiable, what percent of PC users still use desktops? (overall, not power users).
Bob Loblaw
Active member
This puts an end to the Mac/PC comparisons based on tech specs vs price. Macs are truly going to become something unique that can’t be emulated via PC builds. Kudos to Apple for being innovative and exciting once again (feels like it’s been long overdue).
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Yes because back then the technology wasn't there yet and we had a need to keep upgrading components. Today that need is much less. As long as we buy enough ram up front the overall system will typically be outdated long before more slower ram would help very much. Most devices can now be USB-3 or TB-3 based unlike back then when even adding USB-2 to a MP required a PCI card.
Yes upgrades can still be a thing but the majority of users that just isn't true anymore. I know a ton of editors that don't want to fart around with that stuff at all. Plugging in a flash drive or hub is likely the extent as which they will expand on their systems.
I think many in the community still live in the past of an age where upgrading gave a false sense of saving money or having power to do what they want. But in all reality those who buy a new Mac every three or four years are likely ahead of the curve albeit a few dollars in their bank shorter.
I will say this is why I bought a Mac mini and eGPU. It has a few faults but I can pretty much upgrade every single thing on that little machine that I could ever upgrade on the 2012 MP. Ram up to 64GB, GPU, external storage running at m2 speeds, 10Gbe NAS, any external device via USB-2/USB-3/TB3 and so forth. Only thing I can't upgrade on this system is the CPU but that's almost always a useless upgrade path anyway since chipsets and hardware instructions change so frequently. For example even if one upgraded their 2012 MP to 12 cores its actually slower than my 6 core Mac Mini today.
USB-3 and TB3 opened up a whole new world of upgrading computers. Only time ram upgrades are even a valuable thing is if one low balled their system to save money and split the cost over time. In the case of Apple its also to get more ram for a lower cost which is what iMac and Mac mini users do. Its unfortunate the MBP can't upgrade ram and that's one of my main gripes about it but MacOS also tends to make use of lower ram much better than Windows does.
Speaking of ram it was also a must in 2012 as we transitioned from SD to HD and then 4k. We did have ever growing changes in the world that actually needed more ram but that has since leveled off a bit. Ram is still great to have which is why its great that we can still upgrade ram on the iMac and Mac Mini. I suspect 16GB will still be a pretty solid amount for MacOS for many years to come. If one can afford the 32GB on a MBP they should and that will likely serve them well until its time to upgrade the entire MBP anyway.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
likely very small.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Yes. When I look at how long a Mac typically lasts me, it shows it has great value. I bought three windows laptops over the course of nine years. The first two were junk within just a few years(being very generous on the first one and it cost way more than any MBP I’ve bought). The last one was better. But I’ve bought just two MBP’s over the last 11 years and they both still work. Even the 2009 17” MBP that I don’t use and it just sits in the office, when you fire it up, it works like it did when it was new(a friend uses it for some basic editing on FCP 7 every few years). I keep wanting to get a new MBP, especially after the 16” came out, but my 2012 RMBP just keeps chugging along. And the 15”(?) I bought my GF for Christmas in 2010, which has had a HDD replacement and battery replacement, just won’t die, either. I tried to buy her a new one last year and she won’t give this one up. Oh yeah, and the iMac I bought my Mom for Christmas that year too, still going strong. The only thing not still working is the trackpad, because she didn’t replace the AA’s when they died and they corroded and basically welded the end cap on. But she hated the trackpad and only uses the mouse. I’m 99% sure my Mom is still running Snow Leopard, too.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
I still have a 2011 17" MBP here that is a pretty solid machine. Its GPU forces it to be stuck on High Sierra and the single TB1 port and USB-2 connections really date it in terms of connections. Besides those things its a rock solid laptop and I still use it for work sometimes since my other Macs are desktops. Honestly it's the being stuck on High Sierra that hurts it the most since I have to use a different versions of apps.
I have a 2012 MacBook Pro retina 15" that still works well. A friend has gone through two Dells, two HPs, and a Lenovo in the last eight years.
He finally switched to a Mac this year.
He finally switched to a Mac this year.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I concur, I'm still rocking my 2011 15" MBP.
I have to be honest, I think other than processing power, and better, higher resolution screens,
the older MBPs of this era were/are far superior to the current ones. The Touchbar is lame, only having one or two USB C ports is lame.
The current keyboards feel bad. My old 2011 keyboard feels a lot better to type on. Having to buy your RAM installed from Apple is super
lame and a ripoff compared to buying it from OWC and installing it yourself. I still like Apple overall but man do they make some terrible
decisions regarding their laptop designs.
The Touch Bar is of no use to me, and the T2 chip it incorporates, while well intended, is a pain due to its security restrictions like booting from an external hard/thumb drive. The 16" version finally returned to a decent keyboard. Apple does overcharge on RAM.
Thunderbolt/USB C ports are great, but I agree that the lack of a card slot and a legacy USB A port is a PITA. It ostensibly targets professionals, but connectivity is sorely missing.
However, the hardware lasts.
Thunderbolt/USB C ports are great, but I agree that the lack of a card slot and a legacy USB A port is a PITA. It ostensibly targets professionals, but connectivity is sorely missing.
However, the hardware lasts.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Honestly, the biggest thing I'm going to miss when I finally do upgrade to a new MBP from my current 2012, will be the native MagSafe port. Arguably one of the single best things ever in laptop design and they ditched it when they went all USB-C ports, because you can power through them. Yes, there are third party solutions, but it shouldn't be necessary. Ranks up there with ditching the headphone jack on the iPhone.
G
Guest
Guest
Big plus ONE.
If Apple added that back in, they would have a huge... oh, wait. yeah, that's how they do it. lol.
Seriously, the MagSafe was the single best thing in laptop design. it is always the little things, and Apple tends to do that well. I can only imaging the USB-C just gave people more docking options and unified their systems a bit. But nothing like a dedicated port sometimes. One that is purpose built for one thing, and can do that one thing well.
...ops, no no no, you done got me talkin' ergonomics and design...
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Thomas Smet
Veteran
Its the all USB-c ports I like the most of the new Macs. Yeah maybe annoying at times but coming from a 2011 MBP with only FW800, TB1 and USB-2 ports they are all pretty much useless today.TB1 isn't as useless but I kind of refuse to invest in anymore TB1/2 gear which costs a fortune. I have had TB1 hubs and drives that no longer work. My only TB1 device that still works is a BMD Intensity I/O device. TB1 was a fairly unstable turd and could fry very easily. Not as easy to fry as ESATA but still not as stable as it should have been.
Eventually USB-C will replace all USB-A drives and at that point having older ports becomes kind of useless on older Macs. Thats why I actually prefer the flexibility of all TB3 ports. You can pretty much adapt those to whatever you want and no longer have a Mac full of useless ports. Same with video ports like HDMI. A built in HDMI port can eventually be outdated. For example if a HDMI port only supports HD it will never handle better than HD. TB3 means you are very future proof to support new video cable standards.
I will feel much better having a USB-C MBP 9 years from now vs the 2011 MBP I have now with rather useless ports. Plus my 2011 MBP would have been much more useful if it could use eGPUs. Technically it can through TB1 with a bit of trickery but its not worth the effort.
The latest generation of MacBook Pro 16s have 4 ports, and the old keyboards, so they managed to correct course even though it took way too long.
Apple seems to be leaving Intel for the same reason they left PowerPC. ARM is a more efficient option now. I share the doubts about a workstation class CPU from Apple, right now, but if they could create 32 core monster CPUs that cost significantly less than Intel options, then they could maybe start to claw back some market share by finally having a workstation that's priced competitively. PowerMac G5s and early Mac Pros weren't that expensive relative for what you were getting, but Intel's prices have really ballooned over the years, especially for their server grade stuff. The truth of the matter is that Apple has the best ARM chips out there right now, and they've never been pushed to their fullest, so it's hard to compare them to other ARM server CPU attempts, never mind the software integration.
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A new 128-core chip from Ampere.
https://www.crn.com/news/components...core-altra-cpu-targets-intel-amd-in-the-cloud
Intel, AMD, Apple and all the other usual suspects are mentioned.
https://www.crn.com/news/components...core-altra-cpu-targets-intel-amd-in-the-cloud
Intel, AMD, Apple and all the other usual suspects are mentioned.