Anyone using the GH1 for HD Docs/News?

X

xocomil

Well-known member
Am wondering how suitable this camera would be for HD broadcast news feature/doc work.

Firmware hack seems to clear up some of the image quality issues, low light with lens kit has been compared with EX1, kit lens has functioning AF, no record limit, no overheating issues, extendable viewfinder, variety of frame rates, lens has IS, audio can be recorded separately ...

50% plus of shots on legs, 50% handheld, some walking shots needed - a bit of run and gun shooting style.

$1200 for body with lens kit, $300 for audio recorder, $80 for a Class 10 card, $?? for a rig. Already have tripod, shotgun mic, wired and wireless lav mics ... so pretty cheap set up.

Want to get away from my old HDV cam and thought I might give it a try while I wait for more reports on the Canon XF300, introduction of new camcorders, etc. Might become a better cameraman as a result ...

How bad is the moire/aliasing for shooting in uncontrolled environments?

Am I nuts?

Many thanks.
 
Hi, I am using the GH1 with kit lens and pancake for Interviews / B-Roll. Had no problems with aliasing so far. The autofocus in videomode is bad, compared to my canon XH-A1
I like:
Overall Image "look"
Light Sensitivity
Lens interchangeable
Form factor (people do not notice you´re doing video)
I do not like:
Handling
Light sensitivity ( need external ND filters, if you want to use 50fps outdoors)
Audio Input
No HD Output when recording
The GH1 is a nice addition to my Videocamera and I do not want to miss it, but if I had to choose between the two, I still would take the "real" Camcorder, mostly because i can work much faster with it and it has all the necessary connections I need.
Hope this helps, Robert
 
I am using one for b-roll for online news stuff, works nicely, can take a lot of photos while I'm at it as well, which the web guys like.
 
Thanks Robert. Very helpful.

Do you do any pans/tilts with the GH1 on a tripod?

Can you do walking shots using some sort of stabilization without running into aliasing?

What framerate do you record in/output to?

And most importantly, has the GH1 made you a better shooter?

Many thanks!

Dave
 
For outside it is ok but for inside the kit lens is too slow you need a faster lens like the pancake.

Set your focus and lock it the auto focus is kinda sucky.

Obviously audio must be recorded separately.

I had some luck using it on a steadicam junior sort of thing because it's so light.
Took some getting used to and make sure (IEXPOSURE) is off because it fed up my colors but other than that for some mtv2 videos it worked fine:

http://blackout.com/blackout/video/firstlook-sync-test.mp4


Also did some documentary work in Detroit for a TV station and they were very happy with hacked 720 60p.
 
Thanks Ben and Blackout. Good reads.

Ben - you say you used for b-roll. Why not shoot the entire news pkg with the gh1? What were the issues? I work as a lone shooter and must be able to do it all myself - audio/video/interview questions/etc. I know guys like Dan Chung do a great job ... but how much more difficult is it than a dedicated camcorder?

Blackout - how does the 720 video look on an HD monitor? Have you shot 1080 (I have deliver news pkgs for an international news channel in 1080i50 - and would need to do the same for current affairs type docs)? Is it possible to film run and gun style with this camera without killing yourself?

I can scrape together the cash for an EX1R/XF300 (which I'm sure would be the smarter/easier thing to do) but thought I might try my hand at the GH1 to improve my filming and add a more unique style to news pkgs/current affairs docs. Also a bit reluctant to plunk down $7k at this critical point in videocam evolution.

I'd rent the GH1 for a day but I'm living off the grid (Guatemala to be exact) ...

Cheers!
 
720p looks fine for news, and it has that 'live' look that news stations want. The GH1 is a bit fidgety and you would probably be better served buy an ex1 if you can afford it because the ex1 is an actual video camera. The GH1 has a steep learning curve as it is a film camera you are using for video. All in all I think the gh1 can produce better images but it takes more time and has a higher learning curve and it's a bit dangerous for run and gun and more apt to be used for indie film making.
 
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gunstarhero said:
I shoot some news and doc videos for my college on two GH1's. I love the quality of it all. You just have to make sure that you are using the right lens for the job. Here are some examples of some stuff that I have shot recently. I have several different rigs but love the freedom of going hand-held. I record audio on a tascam DR-07 and sync up in post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km4WNdpLdHA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku2s6k4-VtU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0XhMBg0rhc
Click to expand...

The sports stuff is great, no live look there. Looks like NFL Films shot it. Really shows the variety of subject matters the GH1 can be used for and in a whole new way. Interesting seeing such shallow depth of field videos which are typically shot with the live ''everything in focus" look.

Those were shot at 1080 24p, correct?

Randy
 
Cavemandude said:
The sports stuff is great, no live look there. Looks like NFL Films shot it. Really shows the variety of subject matters the GH1 can be used for and in a whole new way. Interesting seeing such shallow depth of field videos which are typically shot with the live ''everything in focus" look.

Those were shot at 1080 24p, correct?

Randy
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah I'm not really a sports guy but I love the look of NFL Films. I didnt use my best shots though. I'm saving them for a much better video down the road. All of the action shots were shot at 60p and the interview shots were 1080 24p. The locker room interviews were shot wide open with a Nikon 50mm 1.4 with only the available lighting. BTW I just got back from shooting with the camera handle that I asked you about. I love this thing. It just makes so much sense .
 
Blackout said:
720p looks fine for news, and it has that 'live' look that news stations want. The GH1 is a bit fidgety and you would probably be better served buy an ex1 if you can afford it because the ex1 is an actual video camera. The GH1 has a steep learning curve as it is a film camera you are using for video. All in all I think the gh1 can produce better images but it takes more time and has a higher learning curve and it's a bit dangerous for run and gun and more apt to be used for indie film making.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking a lot about this and am curious what the learning curve is like. I shot stills for a few years - for a newspaper for a year - and now work video on a prosumer with limited manual functions. I've never shot more than 10 minutes on a true broadcast camera, so have never had a chance to get used to the layout/features.

A number of guys in news (features) and current affairs docs are now using DSLRs and achieving some fantastic results. Maybe it makes sense to use some down time to learn how to shoot with big sensors and get ready for the next wave of videocams - it might be the future for news features/docs. It sure looks hot!

But one of my worries with the GH1(3) is that it is relatively untested in news/docs. How do the images look on a 42" HD screen? I've read they're not as sharp as the EX1 ... but how good do they look?
 
The 1080 24p images are as sharp.. the 720 60p are not.

No one will notice for news footage though... it's talking heads man.

1080 24p is for high end film like stuff.
 
Okay. So 1080 a better bet. Is it possible to shoot 1080 60 (or 1080 50 if I use the hack to convert to PAL framerates)? Most of my final delivery is 50i - no way around it.

That said, I've read that 720p60 holds up a lot better for camera movement - pans/tilts/handheld/walking shots. Is this still the case or has the hack improved 1080 filming? There's more to news than talking heads - in fact in a 3 minutes pkg there's generally about a minute of talking heads, the rest is b-roll. I'll attach a link below to a recent pkg - maybe you can tell me how the GH1 would hold up to this type of filming.

Also, 50mm pancake lens suggested for low light filming. However, I presume one has to film with aperature pretty much wide open, which would make focusing an issue as dof would be so shallow. Or is sensor/lens combo good enough so you can shoot at f8 to keep the focus to several meters, not inches.

Finally, what's the LCD like for focusing? In bright light?

Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YChfBcDzw9E&feature=player_embedded

THanks for all advice! Extremely helpful!!
 
GUN,

liked your sports stuff a lot. Looked good. Did you blow up to 1080p though cause it looks a bit soft on a bunch of shots when watching on a 1080p monitor...

nevermind.. just read your post.. you mixed... ok now I see..

still looks very good.

X, no, if you shoot 1080p you are stuck at 24p, and you had better use the hack if you want to use 1080p (tester13 ptool software hack... google it it's a whole read on it's own)

You can do standard FILM pans and tilts in 1080p and be ok, meaning slow ones... nothing fast... fast or wiggle and you get ugly jello and skew.
 
Blackout said:
You can do standard FILM pans and tilts in 1080p and be ok, meaning slow ones... nothing fast... fast or wiggle and you get ugly jello and skew.
Click to expand...

so what about the hand held stuff? can you shoot in 1080p and not see too much jello/aliasing/artifacts?
 
It depends on what type of news and doc you are talking about. Docs and news IMO usually can get away with more unless you're talking about Discovery Channel or NatGeo.

Supersize Me was shot on an interlaced Sony PD170 and still went to film out and was highly successful. With a GH1 you'll get a vastly superior image as well as DOF that really can enhance the look of your interviews. Typically without a 35mm adapter you have to keep the camera further from the subject and zoom in with a traditional video camera (if you want a shallow DOF).

With the GH1 you'll have to deal with audio differently, as you won't get the highest quality from the mic input, so you'd have to consider running a 2nd sound recorder like an H4n and a lav or shotgun mic on a C-stand.

Additionally, with a DSLR like the GH1 you'll have more flexibility in lower light situations because you can put faster lenses on it (or high ISO on the Canons). This is great for doc work, when you don't always have time to set up lights and have to work with what is available.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the info Steve.

I've been researching a lot more and have seen some great moving footage shot at high bitrate with the GH13. Trick seems to be to get a good stabilizer.

One video showed the videog following her sister around her apartment - show and tell. It was actually a perfect video for me to see as it demonstrates the kind of filming I do. The footage was quite smooth, only problem was her sister occasionally going out of focus.

How do you maintain focus when you and the subject are both moving?

How do you focus with the pancake lens in low light?

Is the LCD screen good enough to set manual focus?

Cheers!

PS - checked out your film website. Enjoyed the trailer. Years ago I worked on a BBC doc with a similar subject, so the trailer brought back memories ...
 
xocomil said:
so what about the hand held stuff? can you shoot in 1080p and not see too much jello/aliasing/artifacts?
Click to expand...

I would not should hand held unless you are very wide and you practice a lot... I mean, you CAN do it, but you want to stay wide and not shake. shakeness brings out the horror of jello in 1080.

here are two 1080p GH1 hacked with handheld..

This is total hand held and not very carefully done, my first test of the hack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYw3MlcuBpo&hd=1
(make sure to selecet 1080p and full screen)

& this is mostly tripod with a few hand held shots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO_h_Irqn_4

(again make sure to select 1080p and full screen)

Totally usable if you are careful... but I wouldn't go doing a saving private ryan type war movie with it...
 
I have just begun using the hacked GH1 for Broll in addition to my HVX shooting news. The footage ends up on NBC and PBS affiliates on thier news feeds. PBS requires 720/60p. Matches up pretty well with the HVX P2 footage.

I have found the form factor is great for lightweight on the move situations. Focusing while you're in a hurry is tough in bright light no lie. But auto focus is very reliable with kit lens and pancake. If you have time the focus assist works great too. Sound sucks with stock mic pretty much, but will pass for nat sound as long as there is no wind.

Lack of timecode can be a pain. Your editor or yourself must get used to a new workflow. I see this camera being a great lightweight addition to my kit. It'll take a bit to get used to and you'll be needing to deal with ND filters and such if you want the "cinematic news" look but the camera is great for news.

Hope that helps....
 
Many thanks Jay. Sounds like you and I are doing similar sorts of work.

A few further questions:

How does the GH1 footage compare with the HVX?

Do you use the 20mm Lumix pancake? If so does the in-camera mic pick up the noise from the auto focus? How about an external mounted on top of the camera (do you use the Zoom)?

Why do you use the GH1 for Broll only? Why not the interviews too?

Do you use a stabilizer?

Good to hear the AF works well in a pinch. You've certainly tweaked my interest!

Thanks!
Dave
 
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