Anyone considering the HVX/P2 Package
- Thread starter 908media
- Start date
SamEdwards
Well-known member
Jan mentioned at resfest SF that a second p2 package wil likely be offered with the camera: 4 - 4 gig cards for about $2k over the price of the camera alone. Sounds like the best deal to me.
cheers,
Sam
cheers,
Sam
insanityfw
Ban Me Please!
it's worth it just for the fun factor. you'll get to reminesce about being on the cutting edge. 
I'm with khmuse...i got on the list, but the cards should be cheaper. panasonic had a press release some time ago stating that the 8 gigs would be $1700, so we'll see.
i'm more looking forward to the firestore if the can cool it quuietly. mine gets noisy and thats with mini dv.
my two bits
I'm with khmuse...i got on the list, but the cards should be cheaper. panasonic had a press release some time ago stating that the 8 gigs would be $1700, so we'll see.
i'm more looking forward to the firestore if the can cool it quuietly. mine gets noisy and thats with mini dv.
my two bits
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Cost aside, any thoughts (postive/negative) about purchasing the P2 cards with the camera?
Well, if you're keeping costs out of it.... I don't see what could be negative about buying the camera with two 8Gb cards. You'll be shooting DVCProHD the day you get the camera.
Kind of hard to discuss the pros and cons of whether or not it's 'worth saving for' while keeping 'costs aside.' Unless someone can think of another negative for P2 cards (other than the price).
Well, if you're keeping costs out of it.... I don't see what could be negative about buying the camera with two 8Gb cards. You'll be shooting DVCProHD the day you get the camera.
Kind of hard to discuss the pros and cons of whether or not it's 'worth saving for' while keeping 'costs aside.' Unless someone can think of another negative for P2 cards (other than the price).
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
908media said:
I don't believe anyone has a problem with P2 as a great option but 4gb or 8gb a card. Not worth it. It's hard to keep cost out if you're trying to decide the "worth". If you're a doing a film Firestore-100, is a much better solution. If you're a filmmaker FS-100 seem the be the best option. I would love to play around with P2 if a card came with but shelling out $1000 for a card that does a couple of minutes for 1G or even 2G for 90 minutes (1080 or 720) isn't "worth it".
-Nate
Luis Caffesse said:
1) capacity
2) price
3) no built in backup.
I could get used to living with 3) and I am sure I will have to, as things will go solid state entirely. P2 is brilliant and certainly forward thinking, but I would like to see 1) and 2) improve [well, 1) mainly] before I would consider it good present thinking for most applications.
contentlab
Well-known member
yes i'm ordering the P2/HVX package for my company. i dont have as much hesitation as some of you production folks since i work for an engineering company. the purpose of getting this camera is to have the ability to capture "relatively"uncompressed HD footage.
yes i know DVCProHD is not real uncompressed but it is not the 420 poop that HDV is. and yes i also know that there are those who will defend HDV to the death but my engineers insist on having 422 source video and not 420.
the P2 cards will allow me to capture ~15minutes of content on the fly for use in testing our video hardware and algorithms. otherwise i have to worry about licensing or buying content from others. the $10k i spend for the HVX+P2 would easily be lost in a just a few minutes of buying HD 422 source from someone.
yes i know DVCProHD is not real uncompressed but it is not the 420 poop that HDV is. and yes i also know that there are those who will defend HDV to the death but my engineers insist on having 422 source video and not 420.
the P2 cards will allow me to capture ~15minutes of content on the fly for use in testing our video hardware and algorithms. otherwise i have to worry about licensing or buying content from others. the $10k i spend for the HVX+P2 would easily be lost in a just a few minutes of buying HD 422 source from someone.
ecking
Veteran
The big con like mmm said is capacity. For me the huge flaw is let's say you get an 8gb card for 1700 bucks, yeah that's cool and all if you don't mind dumping your footage extremely often(which I do) but if panasonic develops p2 really fast like they claim then within a year it'll be practically worthless if you want to sell it and move up.
Yeah I know hard drives always drop in price because of higher capacity but they haven't dropped as fast as panasonic plans to develop p2. Imagine you have an 8 gb hard drive and in 10 months 32gb hard drives are on the market? You didn't even have much of a chance to sell it and recoup your costs.
So if I were you I'd wait on p2 for at least 6 months
Yeah I know hard drives always drop in price because of higher capacity but they haven't dropped as fast as panasonic plans to develop p2. Imagine you have an 8 gb hard drive and in 10 months 32gb hard drives are on the market? You didn't even have much of a chance to sell it and recoup your costs.
So if I were you I'd wait on p2 for at least 6 months
wabbit
Evil has Ears
From a business model perspective, Ecking has a good point. Each individual has to look at the P2 cards the way you look at your camera's depreciation. Can you recoup the costs in a given time frame? For a camera the standard is 3 years. For some, with the faster upgrades that P2 entails, they will want to recoup it's cost in a shorter time frame. There is nothing forcing you to upgrade/buy more P2 cards if you work out a reliable P2workflow with the ones you have but at the same time it would be prudent to have the cards pay for themselves in about a year or so to be safe.
Of course if you view the cost of the camera as a straight 10 grand for HD performance and you need to pay for that total in 3 years. After that, assuming you continue to buy P2 cameras (this is where Panasonic gets ya, once you invest into P2 cards you will want to buy the next generation of P2 cameras when the time comes), additional P2 cards can be thought in terms of a cost vs time saved with extra cards analysis.
Of course the beauty of what Panasonic is doing is that the HVX can be bought as a SD camera while people wait for the HD demand and then evaluate the benefits of buying P2 cards in the future. I can't imagine many of the people investing in HDV have a known market for HD that will pay for camera in the next 3 years (maybe they do but I don't see it yet).
The whole P2 process will require a new way of thinking about how we approach our business model.
Cheers
Of course if you view the cost of the camera as a straight 10 grand for HD performance and you need to pay for that total in 3 years. After that, assuming you continue to buy P2 cameras (this is where Panasonic gets ya, once you invest into P2 cards you will want to buy the next generation of P2 cameras when the time comes), additional P2 cards can be thought in terms of a cost vs time saved with extra cards analysis.
Of course the beauty of what Panasonic is doing is that the HVX can be bought as a SD camera while people wait for the HD demand and then evaluate the benefits of buying P2 cards in the future. I can't imagine many of the people investing in HDV have a known market for HD that will pay for camera in the next 3 years (maybe they do but I don't see it yet).
The whole P2 process will require a new way of thinking about how we approach our business model.
Cheers
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
I've been doing a bit of market research and have come to the conclusion that jumping into HD is not necessary for me this year. I personally want to let the dust settle on the first wave of low cost HD and see what shakes out. I personally like the HVX idea, but I, for one, am gonna wait and see.
Zig_Zigman
Well-known member
I say buy the P2 cards and learn to shoot sparingly and concisely. Good training.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
My point in saying that price is the only negative factor is because it is tied to everything.
People are pointing out capacity as a negative...but would you really think it was a negative if an 8Gb card cost $20?
I suppose you might wish you could shoot longer...but just like someone said they can get used to shooting without a backup...i think most people would look the other way on capacity if the price were low.
People are pointing out capacity as a negative...but would you really think it was a negative if an 8Gb card cost $20?
I suppose you might wish you could shoot longer...but just like someone said they can get used to shooting without a backup...i think most people would look the other way on capacity if the price were low.
My plan is to get the camera and one 8GB card. I can't afford two right now, and one will yield roughly the same amount of shooting time as the 11-minute, 400' 16mm mags I've been shooting with lately when you factor in the convenience of being able to scrap bad takes on the fly. I really can't wait to move into a P2 workflow myself...
Luis Caffesse said:
Yeah....because then I would want a 128GB card for $360 :laugh:
$20!..one day, one day. I certainly wouldn't complain about P2 at that price!
I reckon that by 2012, you'll be able to pick up an 8GB P2 card for $20 on eBay - what professional would buy a 8GB if you can get 1TB! If current trends run true, we'll be seeing 1TB cards around 2012!
About the deleting bad takes idea, I would be VERY weary of doing that. I can see so many people loosing their footage accidently. People say it is like film and only printing what you want, but it isn't. Not printing is different from deleting!
esperman
Well-known member
"An 8GB card will hold 8 minutes of 1080p, 16-20 minutes of 720p, and 32 minutes of SD."
I assume most of us will shoot 720P..so 2 8gig P2 cards gives us around 30-40 minutes total....thats a full day of shooting narrative, guys.
So for all the people crying about P2...either buy the camera and shoot DV to tape for your events, or go buy the XL H1 and shoot icky HDV all day long for the same money.
I assume most of us will shoot 720P..so 2 8gig P2 cards gives us around 30-40 minutes total....thats a full day of shooting narrative, guys.
So for all the people crying about P2...either buy the camera and shoot DV to tape for your events, or go buy the XL H1 and shoot icky HDV all day long for the same money.
I don't have any immediate need for HD, but i can see selling my DVX for $1500 and putting that towards the $5500 HVX. The DVX has paid for itself many times over, so that would put the replacement cost at $5500-$1500= $4000. That seems reasonable even if I only consider it as a new DVX with 16:9 chips. I have no problem waiting for cheaper P2 or maybe snagging a Firestore. Worst case is renting P2, which i would only do if the work justified shooting HD or or DVCPro50.