FS7: Any way to get an amazing Redraw image from FS7?

Clermond said:
uuhh you took one scene with skin tones you didn't like and call it missing mojo?
Seems that every further word is wasted.
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Did you read?

Did you see the part I said I used to have a FS7? And what about the part I said the 3rd shot in that video was the reason I sold my FS7? From that it's obvious I'm NOT talking about only this one single shot. If that shot is the reason I sold my FS7 it means I have seen many shots like that, with my own camera. I don't need to see more of them to know it misses mojo. I owned a FS7 for a couple of years and I grew sick and tired of shots like that.

I actually stopped watching that video at the 3rd shot. Life is too short. Besides since it's an Argentinian soap opera I already knew it would look like a soap opera. It looks exactly like a soap. As expected. After the 3rd shot I had enough.

The Swedish movie I watched both videos till the end. As I said it looks much better. Because it has much more post done to it too. But it still has those typical FS7 shots.
 
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Martin.G said:
Not just one, but every single example posted in this thread that was meant to show how awesome the Sony cameras are, have just discouraged me.

For corporate and one man band stuff, my FS7 delivers amazing quality and it works effortlessly. But i have not seen a single omfg wow video made with it. Not sure why it is like that. I cant answer.
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I'm with you there. The FS7 for corporate and that kind of thing is great. But for that you don't even need the FS7. After I sold my FS7 I bought a FS700 with 7Q for the low end jobs like corporate. Works great! I bought an Alexa for narrative and anything I care for mojo or cinematic.

If you are not happy with the FS7 and don't want your project to look like that, don't shoot FS7. You will never be happy. Grading won't change that. Shoot Red if that's the look you want. :thumbsup:
 
In the 18th century color model of Monet and Van Gogh the primary colors were considered to be red, yellow and blue; the secondary complementary pairs red-green, blue-orange and yellow-purple, for paints that absorb light.

In the 19th-20th century for additive colors produced by mixing light the primary colors are red, green and blue; the complementary pairs of red-cyan, green-magenta, blue-yellow.

In the 21st century film maker's model, the primary color is Arri, the complementary pair is SLog-RedRaw. There are proponents and detractors of each, but there are no Monet's or Van Gogh's here.
 
Tom Roper said:
In the 18th century color model of Monet and Van Gogh the primary colors were considered to be red, yellow and blue; the secondary complementary pairs red-green, blue-orange and yellow-purple, for paints that absorb light.

In the 19th-20th century for additive colors produced by mixing light the primary colors are red, green and blue; the complementary pairs of red-cyan, green-magenta, blue-yellow.

In the 21st century film maker's model, the primary color is Arri, the complementary pair is SLog-RedRaw. There are proponents and detractors of each, but there are no Monet's or Van Gogh's here.
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I wish the problem was only color. If it was then grading would solve everything.
 
I've had a few make similar comments about the Sony F55 not having the "mojo" as you put it. I've had mixed edits of F55 and FS7 from the same multi-camera shoots and they are almost indistinguishable given the same lighting and scenes. If you think the images from the following F55 clips lack mojo then you are indeed a hard man to please. Especially The Crown shot by Adriano Goldman using the F55 with Cooke Panchros. The mojo isn't just the camera, it's all the elements involved and that surround the camera that contributes to the "mojo." As Emmy nominated Goldman says:

“Netflix requires a 4K workflow, so I started by testing cameras that could provide that. After comparing a few, we felt that by combining the F55 and vintage lenses, plus light diffusion filters, we could achieve a rich, soft and kind of romantic period look. The Sony F55 proved to be very reliable, very light, and easy to work with. The Cooke Panchros deliver a very warm and filmic look. And working together with the art and costume department was key to find a palette and control color saturation — that’s also a very important element of the overall style of ‘The Crown.'”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME2umFQ_xBA

a couple more with Sony "mojo"

https://vimeo.com/102171990

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0zFK21_cRk

All to their own that's what I love about this industry. I just can't agree that the FS7 is totally lacking as you put it mojo. Part way through a doco series and not a complaint from many experienced players in the industry about the FS7's "mojo." Mojo: small flannel bag containing one or more magic items. I don't need the magic. Just a good solid image to grade and whilst no camera is perfect I find the FS7/F5/F55 family can deliver very pleasing images. Some clients like a grade that I don't like but that's the democracy of artistic choice. The end "look" is a very subjective opinion.

Chris Young
 
cyvideo said:
I've had a few make similar comments about the Sony F55 not having the "mojo" as you put it. I've had mixed edits of F55 and FS7 from the same multi-camera shoots and they are almost indistinguishable given the same lighting and scenes. If you think the images from the following F55 clips lack mojo then you are indeed a hard man to please. Especially The Crown shot by Adriano Goldman using the F55 with Cooke Panchros. The mojo isn't just the camera, it's all the elements involved and that surround the camera that contributes to the "mojo." As Emmy nominated Goldman says:

“Netflix requires a 4K workflow, so I started by testing cameras that could provide that. After comparing a few, we felt that by combining the F55 and vintage lenses, plus light diffusion filters, we could achieve a rich, soft and kind of romantic period look. The Sony F55 proved to be very reliable, very light, and easy to work with. The Cooke Panchros deliver a very warm and filmic look. And working together with the art and costume department was key to find a palette and control color saturation — that’s also a very important element of the overall style of ‘The Crown.'”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME2umFQ_xBA

a couple more with Sony "mojo"

https://vimeo.com/102171990

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0zFK21_cRk

All to their own that's what I love about this industry. I just can't agree that the FS7 is totally lacking as you put it mojo. Part way through a doco series and not a complaint from many experienced players in the industry about the FS7's "mojo." Mojo: small flannel bag containing one or more magic items. I don't need the magic. Just a good solid image to grade and whilst no camera is perfect I find the FS7/F5/F55 family can deliver very pleasing images. Some clients like a grade that I don't like but that's the democracy of artistic choice. The end "look" is a very subjective opinion.

Chris Young
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Some people on the Red forum were disappointed to learn The Crown wasn't shot on Red. Definitely major mojo, also The Blacklist and others but same thing always said, big budget production resources. Perhaps the owner operators of Alexa or Red are willing to post some of their camera 'mojo' in this thread?
 
Tom Roper said:
Some people on the Red forum were disappointed to learn The Crown wasn't shot on Red. Definitely major mojo, also The Blacklist and others but same thing always said, big budget production resources. Perhaps the owner operators of Alexa or Red are willing to post some of their camera 'mojo' in this thread?
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Yes that would be nice to see... more "mojo" from all :)

Chris Young
 
I don't think anyone needs to be convinced that RED and ARRI have 'mojo'...you can just watch any sample online and see a difference straight out of the box. Even random test videos look good.

I think the question should be (going back to the original post)...can we see some FS7 samples that have some 'mojo'? (I'm genuinely interested.)

The F55 has a lot of amazing work out there...maybe there is a reason it's still $29K, ha.

Does it share the same sensor with the FS7? (Didn't go through this entire thread.)
 
Tom Roper said:
Some people on the Red forum were disappointed to learn The Crown wasn't shot on Red. Definitely major mojo, also The Blacklist and others but same thing always said, big budget production resources. Perhaps the owner operators of Alexa or Red are willing to post some of their camera 'mojo' in this thread?
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Yeah, if you don't think that The Crown looks good, then I don't really know what will please you.

When I first bought my F55, I wasn't over the moon with the image. I felt like I had to fight the camera to get it to do what I wanted it to do(image wise) and that came so easy with the C300. I was also not a fan of A Million Ways to Die in the West. Now, my 55 is my main s35 camera and the C300 only comes out when specifically requested. I also see shows that are shot on Alexa and I run across individual scenes(and I've even seen entire shows) that do not look good and even look like video. There are lots of variables that affect the final image on screen. Yes, you have a leg up and better odds starting with a camera like an Alexa, but it's not "fool proof", either.
 
NorBro said:
I don't think anyone needs to be convinced that RED and ARRI have 'mojo'...you can just watch any sample online and see a difference straight out of the box. Even random test videos look good.

I think the question should be (going back to the original post)...can we see some FS7 samples that have some 'mojo'? (I'm genuinely interested.)

The F55 has a lot of amazing work out there...maybe there is a reason it's still $29K, ha.

Does it share the same sensor with the FS7? (Didn't go through this entire thread.)
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The only thing the F55 and Fs7 share is the name SONY on their side panels. ; )

But seriously, no they don't have the same sensor. There has been constant speculation that the Fs7 and F5 have the same sensor, but I do not know one way or the other. And even if they did, there is so much more to it than just the sensor.
 
I've heard that over the years, but the cameras never looked the same to me, and the F55 always had a look I liked (the final product) but never had a chance to use one.

I agree there is more to it than just the sensor, but two different companies using the same sensor is much different than one company using the same one in their own cameras where the results are likely to be much more similar, IMO.
 
Nearly all of today's cameras can produce pretty decent results. They can also in the hands of post end up looking pretty bad. Anyone watch "The Canyons." Some of the worst looking grades I ever seen out of an Alexa... plus a 7D. The horrible mixture of colors and tones are something you would never judge a camera on. It's a perfect example of how ordinary an Alexa can look. Absolutely no "mojo!" If this was all you had to go by nobody would buy an Alexa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Dnzi3W_u0

Chris Young
 
Tom Roper said:
There are proponents and detractors of each, but there are no Monet's or Van Gogh's here.
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I get you.

But likewise try to get us, the national gallery is filled with art coming from thousands other artists. Should good oil paint only be available to Monet? Most galleries would be pretty darn empty then.
 
The Crown has a beautiful look. Very far from the look i am after though :-)

And the thread is FS7vsRED. Im not really looking for a F55. Nobody around my parts knows the price or features of that camera, and would be willing to pay extra for it.
 
Wow that looks Video AF! Almost as if its shot in 60i.
A top end editor told me they sometimes have vision supplied on Alexa that doesnt look great, but I still thought there would be a baseline film look.
On this point, I used to think the C100 and C300 were different sensors because the look was quite different but the better I get at lighting the more I realise they were probably the same and the 300's just lent themselves to more experienced operators with better skills at the outset.




cyvideo said:
Nearly all of today's cameras can produce pretty decent results. They can also in the hands of post end up looking pretty bad. Anyone watch "The Canyons." Some of the worst looking grades I ever seen out of an Alexa... plus a 7D. The horrible mixture of colors and tones are something you would never judge a camera on. It's a perfect example of how ordinary an Alexa can look. Absolutely no "mojo!" If this was all you had to go by nobody would buy an Alexa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Dnzi3W_u0

Chris Young
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Barry1908 said:
Wow that looks Video AF! Almost as if its shot in 60i.
A top end editor told me they sometimes have vision supplied on Alexa that doesnt look great, but I still thought there would be a baseline film look.
On this point, I used to think the C100 and C300 were different sensors because the look was quite different but the better I get at lighting the more I realise they were probably the same and the 300's just lent themselves to more experienced operators with better skills at the outset.
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cyvideo said:
Nearly all of today's cameras can produce pretty decent results. They can also in the hands of post end up looking pretty bad. Anyone watch "The Canyons." Some of the worst looking grades I ever seen out of an Alexa... plus a 7D. The horrible mixture of colors and tones are something you would never judge a camera on. It's a perfect example of how ordinary an Alexa can look. Absolutely no "mojo!" If this was all you had to go by nobody would buy an Alexa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Dnzi3W_u0

Chris Young
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Ever watch Hemlock Grove on Netflix? Some of the early episodes looked SO BAD that I had to look up what it was shot on. I was expecting a DSLR or something similar(pre-dates their 4K mandate). Nope. Alexa.
 
You have an FS7 and want to shoot epic landscapes and glaciers?

My first choice—by quite a big margin—especially considering your mentioned budget and a good camera already in place, would easily be an Inspire 2 + X7.

Even if you only invest in it for this project, resell value should be good and we might soon see the handheld component of that system.
 
AndreeOnline said:
Inspire 2 + X7.

... and we might soon see the handheld component of that system.
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ha ha. All the Inspire2 owners wait for that since day one - which is two years ago.

The problem is that the image processor has moved into the bird and DJI didn't manage to build a mobile handheld piece with the image processor. I can imagine that since the success of the Zhiun crane the economical success of a osmo X7 will be not given anymore. I don't think we will se it ever. Wild guess though.
 
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