And Here We Are Now... (short film, teaser inside)

[cyclonebill]

I'm posting this elsewhere as well, but I thought I'd post it here also as this community seems to be a bit more active.

A very brief teaser for the very low budget, short film I'm working on can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91cC4AmCOIg - Please share your thoughts!

The journal entries I've kept up until this point will be re-posted momentarily in this thread for anyone who may be interested.

Other pertinent links:

www.marsonmars.com - info on previous projects

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mars-On-Mars-Productions/319008667018 - Newly created Facebook Fan Page

Thanks!

 

[cyclonebill]

February 2nd, 2010

I've always found the making of low budget short films interesting, whether presented in documentary or blog form. That said, I've decided I'd try to document my process in this thread here, and hopefully other budding filmmakers will find it to be either interesting or useful.

You can see trailers for my 3 previous projects at www.youtube.com/marsonmarsproduction For any information regarding those projects, or to view them in full, you can visit http://www.marsonmars.com

I didn't go to film school, and so I consider the first 3 projects I've worked on (a 25-minute short film, a 10 episode web series, and a 5 minute demo trailer) as largely educational projects.

My next project is a 13-minute dramatic short film called "And Here We Are Now". This is the first project I'm working on where the goal is not to create a film that isn't just "pretty good for a short film with no money" or "pretty good for a short film with no professional actors/crew" but something that is (hopefully) a genuinely good short film. Obviously with higher expectations there's a greater chance of this blowing up in my face, but we'll see what happens.

I'll be shooting with a Sony HVR Z7U that I purchased a little while back. I've played around with the camera quite a bit, but shot all of my previous projects with a Canon HV20. Audio will be recorded with an Oktava Mk012.

Auditions are this Sunday February 7th followed by a rehearsal a week later and filming the day after that. There's not a lot of time for the actors to prepare, so that could very well be a problem, but for various reasons we're pretty constrained with the time we have to work on the film.

I'll post the script here for those who are interested in giving it a read: http://www.marsonmars.com/scripts/and here we are now.fdr Sc_10.pdf

I'll post the storyboards a bit later on as well.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

Pavan

 

[cyclonebill]

February 13, 2010

Thought it might be time to post an update.

Held auditions last week. As expected, a few people didn't show up despite confirming repeatedly that they'd be able to attend. Left us in a tricky position since for the lead role we only had two options, one of whom auditioned despite not being available for our shoot date. So that's right - basically we had no choice when it came to the actor playing our lead role.

[A sidebar regarding auditions: There's two ways of thinking about this when casting a film where you won't be paying your actors. Either you could hold the auditions really early, cast your actors and then just hope they don't drop out at the last minute. If they do, the audition will have been so long ago that it may be difficult to replace them on such short notice. Or, you can notify your actors of the audition well in advance, and have the audition be relatively close to the production date. That way if the actor you cast drops out, you have an easier time replacing them. I chose to go with the latter option despite the obvious downside to limiting preparation time for the actors you do cast. Naturally, it didn't work out too well. I notified the actors we selected about the audition, around 22 agreed to come in. Then in the days leading up to the actual audition, about half dropped out after having been cast in other films. (Quick stat: 104 people applied for two roles, 25 were selected for an audition, 22 accepted, by the day before the audition, only 9 were left, at the actual audition - 6 showed up). So yeah, probably won't go that route next time. ]

However, we got lucky. The actor we have at our disposal had a pretty good handle on the material, seemed like a nice guy and after meeting with him afterwards, really has a solid understanding of the tone I'm trying to capture.

We have a 4-hour rehearsal scheduled for this Monday, followed by filming the next day. The rehearsal will also be a chance for me to test out the technical aspects of the production, as we're lucky enough to be rehearsing at the same location we'll be filming (which is a pub in Toronto). I've never worked with legitimate lighting equipment before (instead utilizing desk lamps and gardening lights etc.), which may very well be a problem. I plan on playing around with the massive, 4-point lighting kit we have, on Monday and just seeing what happens. The idea of hiring an experienced/trained DOP crossed my mind, and I actually posted an advertisement on Mandy.com. We had a few entries, but after reading several impressive resumes followed by viewing several unimpressive reels, I concluded I could do just as well on my own. We'll see if that comes back to bite me pretty soon.

I've finally amassed all the equipment, props and so on for Monday/Tuesday, and spent a little bit more than I would've liked. I'm shooting on Compact Flash cards (I have 2 8gigs and one 16-gig card). When setting up my equipment yesterday, it occurred to me that it's entirely possible that I might run out of space (apparently 16gb holds only 73 minutes of footage? seriously?) during our 8-10 hour shoot. I toyed with the idea of bringing along my laptop with external hard drive and transferred the footage over mid-shoot, but I've decided against that. Luckily, the Z7U also shoots on tape, so I'll bring a bunch of extra tapes along and use those as backup.

I have high expectations for myself, and I already feel incredibly exhausted, so hopefully everything goes according to plan on production day. That said, I may not have a super long resume, but I'm experienced enough to know that something ALWAYS goes wrong. I'll report back after production wraps and will hopefully have a teaser trailer ready to go by Wednesday or Thursday.

Pavan

 

[cyclonebill]

February 13, 2010

Thought I'd post the shooting script and shooting schedule in case anyone's interested to see how I'm going about that. I have no idea what the 'professional' way of doing this stuff is, but my motto during this process has just been to do things efficiently and in a way that makes sense to me.

Basically the shooting script just has the script broken up into little sections, and then the schedule arranges the order to shoot those sections. The sections aren't necessarily equal to the scenes, since there are only really like 3 scenes in the entire film so...

Anyway:

Shooting Schedule: http://www.marsonmars.com/scripts/AHWAN Shooting Schedule.pdf

Shooting Script: http://www.marsonmars.com/scripts/and here we are now- Shooting Script.fdr Sc.pdf

 

[cyclonebill]

February 17, 2010

Rehearsal was two days ago, filming yesterday.

It was an interesting process, I can't judge for certain how satisfied I am until I go through the footage and begin editing (later today), so I'll have an update on that shortly.

The rehearsal was fairly laid back, and more of a combination technical test/rehearsal than a straight rehearsal. Present at the rehearsal was just myself, two of my producers (with whom this is the first project I've worked on) and the two lead actors - the first time I've worked with 'real' actors. Immediately there was a stark contrast between the feeling I had here and that I've had on past projects where I know everyone else, or at least the majority of people on-set like the back of my hand. On one hand this created a far more professional atmosphere, but on the other hand, the lack of familarity created this sense of "you're the director, do whatever you want" whenever I'd look for a little input from the others on set. Granted, whatever I say should go, but I've also considered film to be a collaborative effort and I've always appreciated collecting ideas and getting those around me involved, before ultimately deciding which way I want to go.

Aside from a little bit of unease at the rehearsal, mainly compounded by the fact that we realized the subway runs under our basement location regularly and notification from one of the bar employees that they expected meat and beer deliveries all day, coming right through our location on production day - the rehearsal went well. The memorization from the actors was nearly spot-on, and they were a lot further along than I expected in terms of capturing the tone I set out to achieve by this point.


Production Day:

The atmosphere on our shoot day was excellent as the day started. Some new faces eager to lend a hand, several of my old friends who have worked with me on past projects and generally have a keen understanding of the way I work made up the crew, plenty of food, the excitement of the shoot. Things were good - and then I screwed up. When I created the shooting schedule, I purposely scheduled the most difficult scenes to shoot first. Difficult in the sense that they require the most lighting set ups, blocking and camera movement. My logic, of course, was to get the tough stuff out of the way early, rather than attempting to shoot these scenes after fatigue sets in. Unexpectedly, this was a terrible idea. I could sense that those who hadn't worked with me before began to get a little irritated. We were moving at such a slow pace early on, that I think they got the impression we'd be moving at this pace the rest of the day (we wouldn't). As I remained unrelentingly picky, I could start to feel the room turning on me and that great atmosphere we were able to create at the beginning was essentially gone. So a word of advice - schedule the easy stuff first, the hard stuff in the middle, and the average stuff at the end of the day.

Thankfully, once we finished the 'tough stuff', the pace quickened dramatically, which was my intention. The acting on a whole was fantastic. I was a little nervous about directing 'professional' actors coming in, but directing the two leads was an absolute pleasure. Could not have gone any smoother.

I said before that the biggest question mark I had going in was the lighting and it did turn out to bring out some philosophical differences. There's a shot in the film that includes a 180-degree pan as our main character walks from the bar to a table where the rest of film takes place. This means we need to essentially light two areas of the pub (the bar and the table) with one 4-point lighting kit (2 lights each). Because we're only able to light the table with 2 lights for this shot, we needed to weigh the importance of continuity versus the importance of the rest of the film looking good (lighting the table with more than two lights from that point on). I decided that continuity is great, but if it comes at the expense of making the rest of the film being lit terribly (2 lights only), then continuity is not my highest priority - maybe not the most popular decision. I'm sure many of you reading this probably disagree with me, but in the film, there's a very surreal atmosphere that is illustrated repeatedly in the film with an intentional disruption of continuity. It was because of that theme that I felt okay with differing the lighting set up from that 180-degree pan to the rest of the film. Maybe the low priority I was placing on continuity, in my opinion to allow for more creativity, was probably the result of the lack of formal training I have. Essentially, in film school, you learn to make films a certain way that is technically sound, but you're really making films for the grade - to appeal to one person's idea of what a good film should be. It doesn't matter if scene B looks great, if the continuity isn't there, you'll be docked on your grade. At the end of the day I'll be the one who has to stand behind this film, and if it's going to be terrible, I want it to be terrible because of a mistake I made - not because I let myself stray from following my instincts.


Well, did I make a bunch of mistakes? I've only scanned through the footage so far, but things are looking good. Naturally I expect problems, and I intend to do my best to correct them. The footage is being transferred to my iMac as I speak, and the editing process will begin later today. I'm sure it'll be interesting, frustrating, time-consuming and exciting to watch it all come together. However it turns out, the experience ultimately was a great one. I may've painted a bit of a bleak picture of the set, but once we got past those initial speed bumps - people really started to come together and enjoy themselves. Towards the end of the day we amassed everyone involved and took a big group picture - it was a strange feeling standing there among a large group of people who have all come together based on something that was just an abstract idea in my head not even 3 months ago - hopefully I won't let them down.

Updates soon.

Pavan

 

[cyclonebill]

Well it took 6 days, but the editing is done. Went much faster than I expected, but then again I have been editing pretty much non-stop all week. Just waiting on music now for the project to be completed. Looking forward to seeing how it plays with the music inserted, but even at this point I'm very pleased with what we have so far.

I don't have any more footage to post, but a 16-minute, fly-on-the-wall, on-set documentary has been completed and posted on facebook. I'm not sure if you even need a facebook membership to view it (I don't think so), but the address is:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mars-On-Mars-Productions/319008667018

If you feel inclined to join the facebook fan page as well, that's greatly appreciated!

 

[cyclonebill]

Well the film is more or less done now. I had actually finished editing several days ago but started to notice a problem with the audio that I had to go back and correct.

I made the mistake of editing the audio on an intermediate sound set up (using both the built-in speakers on my iMac and average (at best) headphones). The audio sounded fine to me until I uploaded the film to Vimeo and listened to it on a better audio set up (external speakers with a subwoofer) that really highlighted a lot of inconsistencies in the room tone.

The mic that I used was an Oktava MK012, which is one that has a pretty great reputation in the indie film world due to the price:quality ratio. You can find it for around $300 bucks and it's supposed to deliver pretty good audio. Overall I was satisfied with the mic, it did a good job of capturing the dialogue but we also picked up a decent amount of room tone. Room tone is fine, the problem though was the location, which had varying room tone throughout the day (heaters going on and off, bar refridgerators and so on). Since we shot with one camera, angle by angle, the varying room tone became a problem when cutting back and forth between the actors.

I went back and decided to edit the audio in Audacity this time (I just used Final Cut's noise gate tool previously because it didn't seem too problematic) with a better sound set up including a subwoofer. I relied pretty heavily on Audacity's noise removal tool, and there is definitely a big improvement in the audio. As a result though, I'd say about 10 lines or so have come out a little hollow/tinny. Working on getting that fixed still, should be do-able.

I suppose the lesson I've learned from this is two-fold:

1) Scout your location for sound
2) Do all audio editing on the absolute best audio setup you have at your disposal.

Audio aside, the rest of the film has come out pretty well. More than satisfied with the music and visuals.

The next step right now is getting the film seen, which I'm just beginning to embark on.

There's a very small local film festival not far from here that actually stopped accepting submissions before we were even in production, but I'm attempting to circumvent that and get our film screened anyway. Would be nice to premiere the film in my hometown and be able to invite a bunch of people I know to see it. We'll see what happens but I'm not too optimistic since it does take place in a couple of weeks.

Other than that, I'll be simultaneously pushing it on the festival circuit via WithoutABox and also trying to rekindle some of the paper-thin connections I made in the Toronto film industry when pushing previous projects, to get the film distributed. There seem to a decent number of viable options available to me, so hopefully I can some up with something.

If anyone would like to preview the film and post their thoughts here, let me know and I can send a private link your way.

Pavan

 

[cyclonebill]

Well it's been over a month since I updated, some interesting developments since then.

Basically after I completed the film, I began submitting to festivals, but the vast majority of the ones I'm interested in take place in the Fall. So I submitted into a few and also contacted production companies here in Toronto hoping to secure distribution for the film.

Luckily about 5 days after the film was completed I was able to find a distributor. It was just yesterday that the deal was finalized. The distributor is a reputable one in Canada (I'll hold off on revealing the name until they've officially announced it) and they have an international presence. Basically they have the rights to the film now and will be selling it to television stations in Canada & abroad. They don't normally distribute short films, but they said they really enjoyed it and would make an exception. I haven't seen a dime yet, but from the rough estimate I was given, the income could potentially be substantial. Naturally I'm careful about getting my hopes up, but we'll see what happens now that the deal is finalized.

I've also started work on my next project, which will be a hybrid documentary/scripted project. I'm just in the pitch phase right now as I've decided not to produce this one independently. Basically just getting it out to anyone who will listen at this point. If/when there are any developments, I'll be sure to pass them along.

That's all I've got for now.

Oh and I updated my Reel, you can view that here (comments are welcome):
http://www.vimeo.com/10940737

Pavan

 

[dalethompson]

After reading your whole post, I have to play devil's advocate here with this.

Based on your trailer/teaser and the fact you found a distributor in 5 days, I find this incredibly hard to believe. Without sounding like a total jerk or insensitive, the trailer is, well, not good. It doesn't tell a thing, doesn't want to make you want to see what else you shot, no offense.

Look at Drawing with Chalk... a very good trailer (one of the better ones I've seen on here) and there are some really other great trailers on here too. They don't have distributors yet and they're in tons of festivals right now. The quality of these films is top notch... I wouldn't put yours in the same class as these.

I live in Toronto and know what the market is right now for film (features, docs, shorts etc.) and there's a lot of film being stockpiled right now for possibly future deals. There's absolutely no way you found a distributor in 5 days based on this work, I have to call you out on this one.

Luckily about 5 days after the film was completed I was able to find a distributor. It was just yesterday that the deal was finalized. The distributor is a reputable one in Canada (I'll hold off on revealing the name until they've officially announced it) and they have an international presence. Basically they have the rights to the film now and will be selling it to television stations in Canada & abroad. They don't normally distribute short films, but they said they really enjoyed it and would make an exception. I haven't seen a dime yet, but from the rough estimate I was given, the income could potentially be substantial. Naturally I'm careful about getting my hopes up, but we'll see what happens now that the deal is finalized.

Also, you won't get substantial income from a 12-minute short. If it's really good, you may get a chance to try another one.... a slim chance.

Do you know what it takes to get a film distributed? I'm guessing you don't... it takes a lot of hard work, countless writing (proposals, treatments, emails, re-writes etc.), a few connections, a face to face meeting (many in fact) and more than a few days. Unless your name is Spielberg, Scorcese or Cameron, you don't get a deal in days... it takes a long, long time, especially in Canada.

Take a look at the other trailers and projects on this site... you'll quickly see what I'm talking about.

P.S. Hope no one else takes offense to my post or thinks I'm coming across as a total a##hole, I'm just really amused by this thread.

 

[ChaseBecraft]

I'm thinking someone might be trying to scam Mr Pavan if I had to guess or maybe he's got some killer PR behind the scenes.

As far as the trailer goes I would say that I have no idea what in the world is going on?

Maybe if we could see the whole short.

 

[dre83]

Well the film is more or less done now. I had actually finished editing several days ago but started to notice a problem with the audio that I had to go back and correct.

I made the mistake of editing the audio on an intermediate sound set up (using both the built-in speakers on my iMac and average (at best) headphones). The audio sounded fine to me until I uploaded the film to Vimeo and listened to it on a better audio set up (external speakers with a subwoofer) that really highlighted a lot of inconsistencies in the room tone.

The mic that I used was an Oktava MK012, which is one that has a pretty great reputation in the indie film world due to the price:quality ratio. You can find it for around $300 bucks and it's supposed to deliver pretty good audio. Overall I was satisfied with the mic, it did a good job of capturing the dialogue but we also picked up a decent amount of room tone. Room tone is fine, the problem though was the location, which had varying room tone throughout the day (heaters going on and off, bar refridgerators and so on). Since we shot with one camera, angle by angle, the varying room tone became a problem when cutting back and forth between the actors.

I went back and decided to edit the audio in Audacity this time (I just used Final Cut's noise gate tool previously because it didn't seem too problematic) with a better sound set up including a subwoofer. I relied pretty heavily on Audacity's noise removal tool, and there is definitely a big improvement in the audio. As a result though, I'd say about 10 lines or so have come out a little hollow/tinny. Working on getting that fixed still, should be do-able.

I suppose the lesson I've learned from this is two-fold:

1) Scout your location for sound
2) Do all audio editing on the absolute best audio setup you have at your disposal.

Audio aside, the rest of the film has come out pretty well. More than satisfied with the music and visuals.

The next step right now is getting the film seen, which I'm just beginning to embark on.

There's a very small local film festival not far from here that actually stopped accepting submissions before we were even in production, but I'm attempting to circumvent that and get our film screened anyway. Would be nice to premiere the film in my hometown and be able to invite a bunch of people I know to see it. We'll see what happens but I'm not too optimistic since it does take place in a couple of weeks.

Other than that, I'll be simultaneously pushing it on the festival circuit via WithoutABox and also trying to rekindle some of the paper-thin connections I made in the Toronto film industry when pushing previous projects, to get the film distributed. There seem to a decent number of viable options available to me, so hopefully I can some up with something.

If anyone would like to preview the film and post their thoughts here, let me know and I can send a private link your way.

Pavan

Don't worry...you're only the 405640604680646876460864606 th "new guy" who discovers that sound is more then "holding a mice on a stick by a monkey".
:-Dum(DBG):

And indeed, you have to scout your location for sound ALSO (not sound only, because image is important also, but sound is too). And if you could chose between a very very very very very very very very very very nice looking image next to the airport. Or a only very very very nice looking location in a quiet place.... Chose the 2nd one... without doubt.

I'm actualy always surprised that people do sound editing on bad speakers or headphones (it's better not to use headphones doing soundmixing, they give you a different impression).
Best is to use the speakers for which a film/movie is made. If the goal is the internet, use stupid cheap bad pc speakers. And you will notice that some sounds are better left out (like very low rumble sounds).
If the goal is festivals, theaters... well... it needs something better... Maybe hiring some post-production sound people...

But the good thing is, you learn from your mistakes. And that's very good.

 

[cyclonebill]

dalethompson: my fault, I think some of my terminology was off, and maybe I did a poor job of explaining things in my last entry there, so I can understand why you're skeptical. By distribution I don't mean there's a plan in place to roll it out theatrical or whatever, but rather that what happens to the film now is out of my hands and in the hands of a company that specializes in both acquiring and producing content and then representing it in the marketplace.

Obviously that could be meaningless (and I said as much in my previous post), since it ultimately depends on that company's ability to sell the film to others, but on the other hand it could be something as well.

I'm thinking someone might be trying to scam Mr Pavan

Hopefully what I've written above will clarify that it's not a scam. It's a smaller company, but they're legitimate - obviously I researched their credits prior to entering into the agreement.

Also, you won't get substantial income from a 12-minute short. If it's really good, you may get a chance to try another one.... a slim chance.

Our definitions of 'substanial income' probably differ, but the film was made for pennies and I have little doubt I'll end up making a small profit on it.

And indeed, you have to scout your location for sound ALSO

for sure. I didn't get into it before, but we did scout the location for sound but on a weekend, when the subway isn't running every 5 minutes and there isn't a ton of traffic directly above us. dumb move.

Anyway, the audio wasn't too far gone, I ended up being able to salvage it.

But the good thing is, you learn from your mistakes. And that's very good.

It's a rough crowd here, so I'll take that.

As far as the trailer goes I would say that I have no idea what in the world is going on?

Maybe if we could see the whole short.

The film has a bit of a strange premise, it's one of those things that is better viewed without any foreknowledge of what it's actually about, so the 'teaser' is intentionally vague. I'm not allowed to post the short for public viewing online unfortunately, so I guess I'll have to live with the perception that it's terrible. although if anyone's particularly intent on tearing it apart (and bored) the links to the script in the initial post are still active.

 

[cyclonebill]

Do you know what it takes to get a film distributed? I'm guessing you don't... it takes a lot of hard work, countless writing (proposals, treatments, emails, re-writes etc.), a few connections, a face to face meeting (many in fact) and more than a few days.

As an aside, can I get clarification on this? I assume you're referring to a situation in which the film has not already been shot and completed?

 

[dalethompson]

If you want clarification on this, I suggest you do a lot of research into this, I can't sum it up in a few paragraphs at all, sorry. When I started my film film, I knew it was more than just grabbing a camera, hooking up audio and shooting things. What I didn't know is the business side of film... it's very complicated, sometimes confusing and at other times, unfair or unjust. If film was easy, everyone would be doing it (not like everyone is trying to do it anyway).

I agree with ChaseBecraft.... either you are being scammed or something is up for a production company to agree to distribute your film in five days. Again, they probably have a stockpile of material up to two months worth waiting to be looked at, let alone them making a deal with you for this. I just don't know how they would sell this to anyone at all, when it's only 12 minutes long and very confusing (from the trailer).

What terms did the production company give you for this? How much is their cut? You mentioned most film festivals are in the Fall. If you do some research, you'll see there are tons of online film festivals and smaller ones for pretty much every month of the year, there are lots out there that aren't named Cannes, TIFF or Sundance.

I'm not trying to tear apart your thread (nor is anyone else) but it just doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense. If you submitted your trailer to a producer or production company, I would be very surprised they would even contact you back, let alone agree to shop it around, it's just not good enough, sorry.

In terms of making any money from it, again, research how much production companies will take from you, it's not pretty. Anyone on this site will agree how much you make in film off your first few projects... you do it for the love of film, not to make any $$$ from it. Just like any business, expect to lose money for the first little while, that's completely normal.

 

[cyclonebill]

If you want clarification on this, I suggest you do a lot of research into this, I can't sum it up in a few paragraphs at all, sorry.

I wanted clarification on that statement because to me it was referring to a situation where someone has an idea and is trying to get a film produced and then distributed, not a situation where a film has already been completed independently and being shopped. In that case, I have no idea why you made that statement at all since it's not remotely applicable to anything I've posted in this thread, whether true or not.

I agree with ChaseBecraft.... either you are being scammed or something is up for a production company to agree to distribute your film in five days. Again, they probably have a stockpile of material up to two months worth waiting to be looked at, let alone them making a deal with you for this.

I contacted the company, 5 days later I had an informal offer for the distribution. As I said initially, the contract was only finalized the day before yesterday, so it did take a month just for the contract to be drawn up and signed by both parties, so obviously they are busy.

What terms did they give you for this? How much is their cut? You mentioned most film festivals are in the Fall. If you do some research, you'll see there are tons of online film festivals and smaller ones for pretty much every month of the year, there are lots out there that aren't named Cannes, TIFF or Sundance.

Of course there are film festivals year round, but they also have entry deadline dates that are months in advance, hence why most are actually taking place in the Fall. And I've done plenty of research and found that the smaller, unknown festivals actually have higher entry fees than the larger ones and when I'm working with a small budget for festival entry, I'm not going to arbitrarily submit to a festival that I've never heard of and won't be able to attend just for the sake of getting some faux-recognition. I'm curious, how many films have you actually taken on the festival circuit?

I'm not trying to tear apart your thread (nor is anyone else) but it just doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense. If you submitted your trailer to a producer or production company, I would be very surprised they would even contact you back, let alone agree to shop it around, it's just not good enough, sorry.

Well I submitted the complete film to the company I made the deal with. Quite frankly, film is subjective blah blah blah, but I think this might be a case where you and I both just have differing ideas about what's good and what's not. I watched a 2 minute trailer for Drawing With Chalk which you raved about earlier, and the film looked very competently shot and like it had a very decent budget (whether it did or not, I don't know). But that film also looked completely unappealing and uninteresting to me and I wouldn't watch it under any circumstances. Now that is not a knock at all on whoever directed that film (I assume they're a member here), because I can see that film selling to a family television station or something and appealing to a specific audience but it's just not my cup of tea. I went back last night and re-watched my film and what can I say, I'm happy with it - so all I can do is chalk it up to not being your cup of tea and move onto the next project.

You said that getting a distribution agreement doesn't make a lot of sense in this situation... What exactly are you basing that on? How many years have you worked in the industry, in Canada specifically? How many films have you completed and tried to shop? Where is this sage knowledge coming from exactly? Other people's posts on this forum? If you're going to play the Elder Statesman card, make sure you can back it up.

 

[dalethompson]

Of course there are film festivals year round, but they also have entry deadline dates that are months in advance, hence why most are actually taking place in the Fall. And I've done plenty of research and found that the smaller, unknown festivals actually have higher entry fees than the larger ones and when I'm working with a small budget for festival entry, I'm not going to arbitrarily submit to a festival that I've never heard of and won't be able to attend just for the sake of getting some faux-recognition. I'm curious, how many films have you actually taken on the festival circuit?

Now you're just talking nonsense. Film festivals are how the rest of the world gets their films out to mass audiences and for producers/production companies to look at them and pick them up. However, I suppose your amazing trailer got someone's attention in 5 days, so bravo for not having to shop it around to various production companies, you obviously are more talented than what your work indicates. You mentioned you live in Toronto (as do I), what production company did you go with? If the deal's already done, then at least you can announce it now.

I watched a 2 minute trailer for Drawing With Chalk which you raved about earlier, and the film looked very competently shot and like it had a very decent budget (whether it did or not, I don't know). But that film also looked completely unappealing and uninteresting to me and I wouldn't watch it under any circumstances. Now that is not a knock at all on whoever directed that film (I assume they're a member here), because I can see that film selling to a family television station or something and appealing to a specific audience but it's just not my cup of tea. I went back last night and re-watched my film and what can I say, I'm happy with it - so all I can do is chalk it up to not being your cup of tea and move onto the next project.

You're joking, right? There's not even a remote resemblance between Drawing with Chalk and your trailer/film. Read over the thread for Todd's film (DWC) and then you'll get an idea of how much work you have to put into a film to get it picked up to be distributed. And Todd's film is very, very well done, much like 100's of other films on this site looking to be picked up as well. At least DWC is visually appealing, has a great storyline and looks professional... I can't really say the same thing about yours based on the trailer. Sure, Todd's film will be picked up (if it already hasn't been), you're telling me yours will be on TV too? I find that hard to believe, even if it meant showing it at 4am with infomercials.

You said that getting a distribution agreement doesn't make a lot of sense in this situation... What exactly are you basing that on? How many years have you worked in the industry, in Canada specifically? How many films have you completed and tried to shop? Where is this sage knowledge coming from exactly? Other people's posts on this forum? If you're going to play the Elder Statesman card, make sure you can back it up.

I'm basing on reality... something I think is missing in this thread.

 

[cyclonebill]

I don't know what your problem is man, but you're clearly disregarding half of what I say and then going off on these non-sensical rants. I'm sorry if I somehow offended you by creating a thread to chronicle my experiences. Thanks for not answering any of my questions by the way, tells me all I need to know about where you're coming from.

Now you're just talking nonsense. Film festivals are how the rest of the world gets their films out to mass audiences and for producers/production companies to look at them and pick them up. However, I suppose you're amazing trailer got someone's attention in 5 days, so bravo for not having to shop it around to various production companies, you obviously are more talented than what your work indicates.

You're just coming across foolish here. I never doubted the importance of film festivals, in my initial post I said I entered several but they don't take place til the Fall. If you'd actually completed a film and tried to enter it into a festival (I'm assuming you haven't since you dodged my question), then you would know that there's such a thing as a "festival strategy". Submitting your film into every film festival there is, reputable or not, is a fast way to waste money.

You're joking, right? There's not even a remote resemblance between Drawing with Chalk and your trailer/film. Read over the thread for Todd's film (DWC) and then you'll get an idea of how much work you have to put into a film to get it picked up to be distributed. And Todd's film is very, very well done, much like 100's of other films on this site looking to be picked up as well. At least DWC is visually appealing, has a great storyline and looks professional... I can't really say the same thing about yours based on the trailer.

Did I say there was a resemblance between the two films? I said the film looked well made but it did not look appealing to me because it was just not my cup of tea. Are you really trying to debate with me what I find appealing?

And hey, I never came into this thread raving about how my film is the greatest thing since sliced bread. You're making some pretty wild conclusions about my film when you've only seen a 60 second teaser that you said yourself conveys very little about the story.

I'm basing on reality... something I think is missing in this thread.

Oh, so you mean bullshit? Ok, just checking. Not surprised you had to dodge all my questions based on that defeatist attitude you've got there.

 

[cyclonebill]

Nice after-the-fact edits there, so I suppose I'll acknowledge.

You mentioned you live in Toronto (as do I), what production company did you go with? If the deal's already done, then at least you can announce it now.

The deal is done, but I'm going to allow them to announce it when they've actually made a sale for it. Quite frankly I feel no need to prove anything to you, I don't see what you think I would gain by strolling in here and making up lies about distribution agreements when I've already said I haven't seen a dime and very well might never.

you're telling me yours will be on TV too? I find that hard to believe, even if it meant showing it at 4am with infomercials.

It's a distinct possibility, absolutely. I think the fact that you find that so hard to believe is just a reflection of how out of touch you are. Take a look around the dial next time, there are over a dozen specialty channels in Canada that air exclusively films, including short films to fill time. There's also Movieola, which is a digital speciality channel that airs exclusively short films 24 hours a day. Naturally these channels have Canadian Content requirements to fill as well. Of course being the big expert on the industry you are, I'd assume you already knew all of that.

 

[dalethompson]

Based on your whole thread (disregarding what I wrote or anyone else), I'd say your thread of full of crap, but hey, what do I know anyway.

What issues or questions am I dodging anyway? Just curious.

How do you waste money on putting your film in multiple festivals? You spend money to make money in film or else there'd be no festivals anywhere because people would realize they are a waste of time and money (according to you) to submit to every festival out there.

FYI, I'm not ranting, I'm actually laughing as I'm writing this. Do you belong to any film groups or organizations here in Toronto? If not, I suggest you join one or two, you'll soon learn how things in film really work. And as far as being a defeatist, lol, I'm as realistic as they come. Things don't happen in film in a month... again, join a film organization, you'll learn this too.

I can't say anything else about your teaser. What else is there left to say? If your 60 second teaser says nothing about your story, it's just wasted space on a server somewhere.

 

[dalethompson]

Angry much?