anamorphic lens focal length advice

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astigmatic

Well-known member
I think I'm going to go lomo anamorphic for my next film. However I can only afford one or two lenses. What would be the best focal length to go with if I had only one or two lenses to choose from?

thanks!
 
If you are talking about the more affordable Lomo squarefronts there are only three sometime available on ebay. 35mm, 50mm and 85mm. Discussed this with a partner several times based on a few tests i have seen on Vimeo and could shoot a feature with a 50mm if the style of the film dictated it. Best would be the 35mm if your were using a GH1 or Af100. From footage i have seen the 85 is very very nice, they can be found from $1000-$2000 depending on condition and the generosity of the seller.
You could shoot a feature with an Iscorama ($2500-+) if you can find one and change focal with the taking lens.
on the other hand i just watched an indian feature shot Canon 7D and seemingly cropped for widescreen anamorphic (sans flares), looks incredible.
http://vimeo.com/14850522 check it out. the trailer is not cropped for widescreen though.
 
Depends on what looks you are going for. The 50mm I think is wide enough for most situations, but if you have to shoot in a small room, you'll need the 35. The 80mm is perfect for closeups. The bokeh is absolutely stunning on that one.

+1 on the Iscorama. Beautiful picture and very, very sharp. It's more difficult to focus than a Lomo though, because you always run the risk of spinning it loose on the lens. :)
 
The 35mm Lomo Squarefront produces a lot of barrel distortion (the newer roundfront has more) - that translates to either slightly warped verticals or very bent/fisheye looks, but this really depends on your framing/shot/composition etc.

Do bear in mind the X2 crop - that means you'll de-squeeze the footage and then still have to compensate to get the correct A/R - as these lenses weren't designed for the 16X9 sensor. So this makes it a slightly different proposition to shooting on other camera systems.

I agree that renting might be a better option... you could get Roundfronts and do a 35mm/50mm/75mm/100mm/150mm combo.

If buying Squarefronts, I'd go 35mm & 50mm - as you can always move your sticks closer or further away for reframes :)

In terms of light - be aware that Lomos (like a lot of anas and other lenses) will be softer at T2.4 (or wide open at their max aperture)... in fact, on a 35mm it's hard to get pin sharp focus wide open. However, at T4 to T5.6 they have a great sweet spot. So, it depends on what you're shooting, but you'll be using higher ISO's if you're looking for low/available light shooting.

Last thing, watch out for mounts. The classic Squarefronts are 35/50/80 in Oct-19. These are often converted to PL. If you do buy Oct-19 and want them converted to PL, it's a specialist job and normally means sending back to Russia. The newer Roundfronts are a lot simpler to convert to PL and normally this can be done simply.
 
thanks for the adice guys. I'm thinking 35 and 50 for a square set or a single 50 roundfront.

How does the roundfront perform wide open? Does the sharpness suffer as welll? I'd rather buy than rent because I will need weeks of practice with them. I'm working with a small crew.
 
The Squarefronts are older (60's and 70's normally) - so, you're working with older units. Focusing may be stiffer (or looser - depending on the lens condition) and you may find that focus scale or aperture markings are not 'spot on' - so witness marks and measured focus depends on a good camera team :)

The Roundfronts are more modern lenses in their design (mainly 80's - if memory serves) and have easier focusing as they are more conventional in design making for better focus/transmission of light etc. Squarefronts have (obviously!) the Squarefront itself and then the main lens - so you get some interesting distortions and abberations.

The roundfront 50mm is better than the squarefront - but it's still soft(er) when fully wide. The T4-T5.6 range is really where the focus competes with the tack-sharp modern lenses... and this is either for squares or rounds... simply, the rounds have better optics.

Don't forget that there was a run on Anamorphic lenses a few years ago (for use on Reds) and that's when the prices were a lot cheaper - good quality Squarefronts were a lot less in $ than now. You should be looking around $1500 per lens for Oct-19 (PL shouldn't be that much more - you may even get them for a similar price).

Really, it does depend on the condition of the individual lens itself - you could get a really well looked after Squarefront or a crappy condition roundfront. Sort of the luck of the draw (when buying blind) - look to get from a reputable supplier or on-line dealer. You may need a lens tech to check them out & collimate them - then you're good to go :)

The 50mm Roundfront will be easier to operate for the crew (or yourself) - it's a little bigger (and more expensive) and generally will give a more modern anamorphic look. The Squarefronts give a more antique/60's/70's feel (IMO!) - but they make you work a bit more as they need a little 'tender loving care'!

Have fun!
 
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thanks for the information. Stopping down to t/4 may be problematic. The last film I shot on the 7d had the lenses at around f/4-5.6 and it dramatically reduced the effectiveness of my light kit . I got to really think this through.
 
astigmatic said:
thanks for the information. Stopping down to t/4 may be problematic. The last film I shot on the 7d had the lenses at around f/4-5.6 and it dramatically reduced the effectiveness of my light kit . I got to really think this through.
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What's your average shooting ISO? In the 400-800 range with T4 should be serviceable (obviously - don't know what you're shooting, so just guessing here). Old cine primes (pre digital era) have a certain look/feel but even new primes are sharper at a stop away from fully open.

Just suggesting here :) maybe hire a Lomo for a day and just do a series of tests and see how happy you are with the way it works (shoot charts for critical focus and do a few backyard/tree/flare tests) - a lot of what I like about the Lomo's are the filmic/softness. Softer is fine if you're not planning to film-out at the end of your production chain. I think it'd be worth the day hire (or you may even get a weekend rate that'll give you 2 days for one) and then you'll know if the Cine/Lomo route is right for you & the production :)

Other idea would be to use a Kowa/Sankor/Isco (et al) - this limits your choice of taking lens, as you'll have to experiment more with differing lenses (consider the Helios 44m-2 58mm - but you can use any number of lenses, just watch for wides as they'll vignette) but this is a much cheaper option to experiment with. You'd need the Ana lens and an Ana adapter. Advantage here is you'll loose a stop, but gain more range (you'll get f2.8 on a Helios 44m-2 - but this is an old/manual stills lens, so it depends what you're used to). You could use the Panasonic adapter - advantage here is you can use modern lenses (so you're not limiting to old style/manuals etc) - some say they're fine and others hate them (not used these - so I have no personal opinion... but one of these would make the production chain simpler - I'd guess you'd loose some of the antique look, but that could always be graded back in).


David W. Jones said:
Do you have a monitoring solution in place for shooting anamorphic?
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Anamorphic clip on adapters (made by Century in the early 00's) - they don't fit perfectly (gaffa tape is useful here!) and they're 1.33X not the full 2X (of ana Lomo's/Cookes or the Isco/Kowa etc). Not ideal, but hady as an 'almost there' version for framing. I'm considering the Smallhd monitor, as that has the ability to user define pixel A/R, so it should be possible to create a 2X image (will need to get one and test this).
 
wow that looks awsome. That's def the cinematic quality I want. Not necessarily the same look, but the aspect ratio and the lens rendering. thanks for the link!
 
No problem - you may also want to read this http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?225284-GH13-Feature-film-grabs-(Anamorphic-40Mbps - in terms of lighting they used reflectors/bounce and some lights for interiors... they've shared a lot & just thought I'd post in case you missed it.

Lomos/Anas are very much a stylistic choice. When you go down this route - the Ana's demand a certain way of working - from rigging and lighting through to shot composition (as a 50mm gives you 50mm vertically and 25mm horizontally). It's more work, but that's what makes it fun!

Rent a Lomo & experiment!
 
its the Iscorama, a 1x5 Anamorphic adaptor and one of the best. The lens was created as a high end novelty item back in the 80's for anamorphic slide projectors. The lens was used on camera's like Nikon's and optically unsqueezed by using the same lens on the slide projector. A year a half ago they were $200 so expect that auction to go to $3k. The Iscorama is slightly different in size to the Isco 36 but has the same optics and taking lens abilities. I use anything from a Nikkor 35mm, 50mm 1.2 (best results for me), 85 1.2 and even a 105 2.8 on it as a taking lens. You use a series of step rings 52mm (x1) to 49mm(x3) (the isco back end) to stick the taking lens to the adaptor. You set the the taking lens to infinity and focus with the Isco. It is advised to use a 77mm close up diopter +0.5 (rare) to +1.0 up to get closer as the Isco has a 6ft minumum focusing. So, yes it's a ***** often but the results are stunning. There are a few monster threads here on DVX and cinema5d just type in Iscorama.

As you can see that one has its own Nikon taking lens that can be removed and with step up rings you stick on your taking lens of choice. I tossed my original taking lens as it was unstable on the Isco and optics were just so-so compared to any Nikon lens. Most Isco fanboys seem to rate the 50mm 1.8 very high.
 
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The Iscoramas are great. Depending on the taking lens you use, they can be very sharp even when wide open, as opposed to the Lomos which soften up considerable at their largest apertures.

The squeeze of the Isco is also more suited to a 16:9 dslr sensor, as opposed to the Lomo's 2x squeeze, where you crop a lot off the sides. I do prefer the look of a 2x anamorphic however, even with the loss of resolution, but in many situations, the Iscos will work better.

On my GH-1, I can get as wide as 28mm with the Iscorama. A 24mm lens starts to vignette, and a thicker diopter on the 28mm will vignette also. But 28mm is plenty wide... with the squeeze, it's like a frame of view of ~19-20 mm.
 
oh okay, so that ebay listing shows the isco attached to a nikon taking lens. Can one focus normally with the isco? Or do you have to set focus and make sure your talent doesn't move out of the focus range?
 
astigmatic said:
oh okay, so that ebay listing shows the isco attached to a nikon taking lens. Can one focus normally with the isco? Or do you have to set focus and make sure your talent doesn't move out of the focus range?
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okay, from what I read(took a while to find), you need to focus using both the taking lens and the iscorama at the same time. Sounds really painful. I think the lomo's may be the better option for me..
 
You focus with the taking lens set on infinity and rack with the Isco. With a FF it works it works just fine. For hand held run n gun it's tricky for sure as you do lose focus but I like that doc 70's widescreen look. Shooting on a tripod it's no problem whatsoever.
Whatever you can get your hands on as they are both in short supply. Not sure your location but not many sets of Lomos roundfronts to rent outside NYC and LA.
The older squarefronts date to the early 70's and can be tricky and stiff to focus as well if not serviced for years.
 
biginvegas said:
You focus with the taking lens set on infinity and rack with the Isco. .
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oh, that would be perfect. So you leave the taking lens alone. I thought focussing was a big fuss. Is focussing the same with kowa adapters? Or are the iscoramas the only adapters that work like this?

I live not too far from LA so I may be able to rent some first.. though it's sometimes cheaper to buy and sell if I don't like.

thanks
 
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