All NEW super duper camera coming.. (yawn)

starcentral

starcentral

Veteran
Ok let's say this was actually TRUE – that a "new" camera has been developed and will be releasing soon. As in tomorrow!

Have we reached the point yet where we can all agree and say, "who gives a ****"? Are we all finally happy with what's out there yet?

Interested in perspectives.

Cheers,
 
There will always be demand for something better. Not because we (the producers) want it, but because the market wants it. What might seem okay now will be ancient tech in 10 years. VR needs super high rez (8K and up) Organic sensors will be the next step up in image quality (super low light, extreme dynamic range)
And if it's not image quality, it'll be weight, form factor, materials used, framerates and so on.
 
I think it's a matter of price point too. Just like 4K is getting more affordable and internal recording of 10bit codecs are coming down in price, I think moving forward it'll be about bringing the current top tier specs into more affordable price points.

So 14bit RAW 3:1 4k with optional 10/12bit 444 capabilities. Rec2020 and more robust color spaces. Wider DR. More sensitive sensors with global shutter. Motion metadata for VFX houses. Lighter weight. Again, we already have cameras that can do these things, but I think the new developments will not only be about introducing new technology but about manufacturing/business innovations that will make these specs available at a lower price point. I think Black Magic is an example of this.

And as these prices come down, I think I will continue to get exited!
 
Well, going from the categories --

the ultimate high end big budget feature/TV DP's will probably want more Alexa65's or its facsimiles. A medium format sensor with 6K-8K image. Money is no object there but they'll probably need more than 28 units that have been made so far.

The bulk of the TV and medium budget features would /should expect something like an F65 in a F55 body with the F55 workflow. And lower prices on Red Dragon, F55 (and its eventual replacement) and a true Alexa 4K-5K. The same class of shooters may also give a look to canon C500 MKII, if it has more or less a Canon look with 6K and a better dynamic range.

The independents may desire something to compete with C300 MKII, FS7 and/or Red Raven, perhaps a $15,000 F5 update.

The budget/event videographers have already declared a need for a (slightly) better specc'ed DVX 200 (more DR, better low light performance, less rolling shutter) while the hybrid shooters could settle for a 10-bit internal 4K without having their fingers burned.

But here's a twist. Lately, top innovations seem to be coming from the consumer divisions of these photo-video companies. The high end market is almost willing to cherry pick from the low end, albeit with a better execution and higher quality.
 
Gone are the days when the technology was the limiting factor. High quality cameras are so cheap, so abundant, and come in so many different forms there are no excuses anymore. If you can't make a decent image with one of today's many cameras, then the limiting factor is you, not the technology. So yeah, I don't really give s***.
 
starcentral said:
Interested in perspectives.
Click to expand...

What would be nice is if the manufacturers made something first and then announced it, it that it was available to purchase at the announcement. The continual speculation, excitement, disappointment, arguments and tricky purchasing decisions caused by the current situation is getting a bit tired!
Steve
 
Way back even Sony started pre-announcing "The New F" however if you remember, and now that they've put all their R&D money into the F5/F55/F65 as any smart company would do they are letting it trickle down into newer lower models with a few features missing, or non-FZ mounts.
 
I personally can't wait for NAB 2016 and all the cameras that will be announced there. Then I can spend the rest of the year waiting for them to ship, but then it's almost time for NAB 2017 already, so it makes no sense to buy a new camera before seeing what other revolutionary cameras will be announced.
 
I think if you have a high end camera as you do, your less apt to get excited with lower end cameras that have maybe 1 out of three features you already have. Not everyone can afford to spend 30k on a body. So there will always be those waiting in the wings for a better spec than what they have, especially if it's in the price they can manage. Competition is stiff, I actually think camera manufacturers have created their own race to the end because of it, unfortunately it's also saturated the market with many wanna be filmmakers who haven't the knowledge or experience, but have 5k to throw down, and call themselves a DP because they now own a "cinema camera" ,which in turn lowers the rate across the board. (Unless your well established). We as consumers have had capable enough cameras to produce beautiful images for a long time now, If your story isn't any good shot with 8 bit 4:2:0, chances are 12 bit 4:4:4 isn't going to help it much unless it's relying on CGI. We all know it starts with a good writing, acting, audio, camera work, and editing. But as long as people make excuses as to why they need something better to tell their story, companies will continue to make incremental updates to take your money!
 
Liam Hall said:
Gone are the days when the technology was the limiting factor. High quality cameras are so cheap, so abundant, and come in so many different forms there are no excuses anymore. If you can't make a decent image with one of today's many cameras, then the limiting factor is you, not the technology. So yeah, I don't really give s***.
Click to expand...
+10
 
Price is always an issue. I like the all in one solution, internal ND filters, XLR inputs, records internally, built in EVF. The Canon C100 comes pretty close. Really can't complain about what is available to day and the prices for the IQ you get.
Today camera isn't the issue any more when it comes to narrative shooting on a budget. It's really more about script, acting, wardrobe, sets, FX, audio, sound track, etc. I mean, it's always been about those things more so than camera, but today it's easy t pick up a camera that makes a nice image without a DOF adapter, tons of post processing, etc.
 
What's interesting to observe is back in 2005 we were trying to cross the 1/3" CCD barrier as well as 8-bit codec limitations. Today we have nice super35mm sized sensors and RAW, and now it seems the smaller things we're after and quibble about are having built-in ND filters, 100 codec options, small footprint, lens mounting options, cheap media cards, and quite surely more...

:shocked:
 
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starcentral said:
Ok let's say this was actually TRUE – that a "new" camera has been developed and will be releasing soon. As in tomorrow!

Have we reached the point yet where we can all agree and say, "who gives a s*%t"? Are we all finally happy with what's out there yet?

Interested in perspectives.

Cheers,
Click to expand...
After getting FS7 I feel exactly like that :) Cannot get excited even if I really want to ;) I'm "full" and look into different directions now. I guesd few years to come to the moment when it will be necessary to upgrade to stay in line.
 
Sure, we already have cameras that are capable of shooting footage fit to be shown on the big screen, but... um, we've had that for at least 20 years (if we're talking affordable), and to the beginning of film, if we're talking money-no-object. But we're still not where we need to be. That is, the point we've reached with computers. Today, computers are a commodity - there are no more big breakthroughs, nobody is waiting with bated breath for Intel's next processor, memory and storage are now only a matter of price - there are no leaps and bounds on the horizon, and moreover, not a great deal of demand - do you need your computer to be much faster, have more memory and storage? What else? The only thing left is the continuing fall in prices, but even so, it's all pretty affordable. We're not there as yet with cameras, by a long shot. So the excitement is still there. There is no excitement with computers. The A7S took care of low light, we're good with resolution, we're almost there with DR, but not all in one small package with all the conveniences including electronic ND filter and so on - the cameras need to get a heck of a lot more sophisticated digitally - I don't want to have to deal with any physical filters (why should I have to buy a promist or any other filter, since it can all be done electronically one day) - I want reliable internal storage, wireless transmission of footage and so on... still a LONG, LONG way to go and I'm very excited to see what comes next. We're definitely still on an evolutionary incline with a LONG way to go.
 
We are way past the "good enough" point, even in the sub-$1K market.

My a7S is on ebay right now. I'm not getting the a7S II, it's just a bit too expensive for me. If it sells, I'll get an RX100 IV. Because it's good enough, and it's a simpler tool: I want to spend a year working on my weak points and trying to improve my craft. For me, right now, the camera is only holding me back in the sense that it takes too much time and attention away from more important stuff.

All of this comes after posting my biggest project to date here on dvxuser and receiving lots of great feedback regarding editing and direction and post, and absolutely no comments about things that a better camera would solve.

Of course, all of this doesn't kill the excitement about new cameras coming out... But I think I have it under control: as proven by the fact that I'm not going for the a7S II, anything new would have to be truly awesome and cheap for me to buy it right now.
 
starcentral said:
What's interesting to observe is back in 2005 we were trying to cross the 1/3" CCD barrier as well as 8-bit codec limitations. Today we have nice super35mm sized sensors and RAW, and now it seems the smaller things we are after and quibble about like built-in ND filters, 100 codec options, footprint, mounting options, cheap media cards, and quite surely more.

:shocked:
Click to expand...

The way you phrased it, wanting ND-filters, more codec options, a small footprint etc...are insignificant because in 2005 you'd be happy to have an S35 sensor. What does 2005 have to do with the cameras being announced today? If I am purchasing a new computer, cell phone, vehicle, etc...I base my decision on the current market.

No two freelancers or prod-houses are the same. They have different clients, different workflows, different priorities, thus different wants and needs in relation to those. I've seen many threads where someone who isn't even considering that particular camera comes in to tell everyone else that they're caring about "the wrong things".

It's silly to say that because A doesn't require built-in ND for their workflow that B is quibbling because that's important to them. Many cameras incorporate built-in ND, it's not an obscure request. Asking for improvements in ergonomics, size, DR, etc...is a natural progression. As technology improves and more and more cameras have similar sensors, resolution, DR, etc...it's precisely the little things that set each of them apart.

I may be misreading your point entirely, but I'm not sure I understand what the point of this thread is. To say that no new cameras should be announced? To say that only the cameras with the specs that interest you should be discussed?
 
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Ok but where does it end? That was the point of the thread. Looks like there will "always" be something someone isn't happy with or wants more from.

I understand wanting more. There's a few things I'd like worked out on my F55, but it seems like serious icing on the cake compared to what I had 10 years ago.
 
starcentral said:
Ok but where does it end? That was the point of the thread. Looks like there will "always" be something someone isn't happy with or wants more from.

I understand wanting more. There's a few things I'd like worked out on my F55, but it seems like serious icing on the cake compared to what I had 10 years ago.
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It never ends. Technology continues to improve. Would you be happy with a cell phone from 2005 for the rest of your life? The first iPhone wasn't released until 2007.

It's awesome that you're happy with your F55. That's a nice camera! I find it funny that the F55 incorporates a lot of the features (built-in ND, codecs, small footprint, etc...) that you say other folks are "quibbling" over when discussing cameras that aren't as spec'd out. So, it's ok for you to have those features in your $30k camera, but if someone else wants them in another body, they're quibbling?

Still confused.
 
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