Alexa / RED / Super 16 comparison footage
- Thread starter John Brawley
- Start date
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Thanks John. Outstanding test. I really like the look of the Alexa, but, with some noise reduction, the Super 16 is pretty sweet. All in all though, the Red MX really isn't a slouch. Ya'll got a tough decision to make. Let us know which one you go with in the end. Thanks again.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Wow, I was absolutely amazed at the Alexa shot in the beginning compared to the Super 16. Some of the Red MX shots I really liked the skin tones in, but overall, Alexa hands down on that. The Super 16 looked great as well, although definitely some noise reduction would be in order. Thanks for sharing your tests!
John Brawley
Well-known member
Alexa seems to be what the producer's like. It's a bit more expensive than the RED...which is also more expensive than the previous season's format...
jb
The 16mm wouldnt look as noisy if we saw the real file, vimeo really messes it up, along with blacks in general. The problem with it and HD is compression more than anything.
That RED is looking sad. Why do people love those cameras so much??
Too bad you couldnt test out an F3 with Slog, I bet it would hold up quite well and would cost so little. Go out to KiPro or PIX, etc...
That RED is looking sad. Why do people love those cameras so much??
Too bad you couldnt test out an F3 with Slog, I bet it would hold up quite well and would cost so little. Go out to KiPro or PIX, etc...
John Brawley
Well-known member
Didn't think Slog was *shipping* yet on the F3 ?
I wasn't overwhelmed by the F3. It's a nice "insert" camera maybe, but I've been using AF100's in that role recently and they are smaller, and even cheaper.
jb
combatentropy
Veteran
I think the female model was better than the guy. Oh, what was the question?
Great job lighting, by the way.
Great job lighting, by the way.
The F3 is far more camera than an AF100. Why would you chose that, with its smaller sensor and less DR, when trying to match larger sensors and more expensive cameras? Do you have an anti-Sony thing going on?
No, Slog isnt shipping yet, that is why I said "too bad...". Even without Slog, it matches up to a RED just fine and exceeds it in low light. I own (ed) both and found the F3 to be the best thing out there for price, under an Alexa. I personally know a show in the UK that was all RED until they got some F3's... they took about a month to switch over completely.
No, Slog isnt shipping yet, that is why I said "too bad...". Even without Slog, it matches up to a RED just fine and exceeds it in low light. I own (ed) both and found the F3 to be the best thing out there for price, under an Alexa. I personally know a show in the UK that was all RED until they got some F3's... they took about a month to switch over completely.
John Brawley
Well-known member
That's your opinion. I'm entitled to mine.
The sensor size is close enough for me. I'd rather have a smaller (cheaper) camera thanks as an insert camera. I also use a GH1. And yeah. I don't like EX as a codec. Does that make me anti Sony ? You seem pretty protective of them...maybe you're the one that's insecure. All I said was that I wasn't overwhelmed by the F3. You took it as a slight against a camera you're obviously excited about. I just use the best camera for the job as I see it. I'm not wedded to brands. I'm pretty excited by the FS 100.
I'm sure they're great. They're just not for me on the shows I'm doing. Maybe I'll end up doing a show where they're perfect for what I need. Right now, they are too physically close to the size of a RED or an Alexa. I don't see a need to use one when I have a better option on hand. They don't have enough of a point of difference for me. But that's just my circumstances. You obviously see them differently. Go for it.
jb
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Given you have access to all that incredible gear when would you find a GH1 useful? How does the footage from the GH1 look when mixed in with the stuff from these other cameras- are you using a hacked GH1? Is there ever a problem with the directors and actors taking you seriously when you break out the GH1? By the way, your blog is great- thanks for sharing your knowledge. You should consider putting up a link to your twitter.
So now I'm insecure because you have some issue going on with the F3? No mate, I can afford what I want, and have... outside of an Alexa. Your opinion seems to be on its own. I don't think anyone will agree that an AF100 is more of a camera than an F3. Less DR, less build quality, smaller and less sensitive sensor, less image control, no 10bit output, and the list goes on. Your comment stating it was good as an "insert" camera is funny and tells me enough about whats going on here. I think you have an emotional thing going on so I wont be able to talk to you about it further... so have fun.
The F3 is no where near the size of a heavy brick-like RED or an Alexa, its more like using an HVX so not sure where that's coming from.. enough said.
Edit: I decided not to bother checking this thread of forum anymore. I used to be into RED back when it was new and was on their forums early on but was shooting film at the same time. The guys there acted the same way when I said that the RED's were not up to film but looked "ok". I know what looks best for me based on very careful study and testing, and more importantly my feeling, when watching it. Saying anything further about this will be the same as those RED days when what I say makes no sense to those who made up their minds long ago, regardless of the reality.
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John Brawley
Well-known member
Thanks.
Yes it was a hacked GH1. I used for a few key scenes in the series. We had a scene that largely took place in a night club toilet....with three cast....in the cubicle ! So it was perfect for those kinds of one of shots. One of our characters also rides a bicycle a lot and it was a great camera for rigging to his bike. This allowed the cast member to actually safely ride his bike in the show without being on a trailer etc. And you get much better travelling shots that way, cause he can turn through 360 degrees and it looks great on camera.
http://flic.kr/p/9Nz6se
We also used the GH1 for the occasional car rig shot but the AF100's tended to be the preferred car rig cameras. We have very strict road rules that don't even allow for cars to be driven with Hostess trays, or hood mounts. We have to shoot everything from within the car or get a low loader.
The GH1 did struggle a little in the cars, mainly because of it's more limited dynamic range in difficult lighting conditions, but just about any camera has a hard time with these kinds of
I've found with the cast that if I tell them what I'm doing and why I'm doing it then they get right on board. They equate it with more intimate scenes too. I've often used the GH1 / AF100 for closed set type scenarios where it's just me and the cast in the room. It's a lot less intimidating and more discrete for this kind of work. Sometimes I'd retire the A camera operator and the director would operate a second camera. She was the series setup director and is ex-camera department herself. Again, this makes it much more intimate with the cast. Just two camera operators, a boom swinger and the cast in the room. And the director operating with me on the B camera.
I've also given the cast AF100's or GH1's for the occasional POV shot. Our main lead LOVES to do her own POV shots when she can. She's actually become quite good as an operator and asks to do them !
Her character has a lot of fantasies or segues into alternate possibilities so we're always doing speed ramps or rigging cameras in crazy ways. We use lot's of different cameras so the GH1 is just another camera that gets used for certain kinds of shots or setups. The main disappointment with it is that it doesn't have any way of monitoring it's output when it's rolling.
jb
John Brawley
Well-known member
Yes I sort of know the director Mark, through the DOP on that doco, Karl. I believe he's doing a remake of Patrick right now ! I was one of the few that saw it during it's very short theatric release.
jb
Chris Adler
Veteran
I'd venture to say the person manning the camera could have done a better job. The footage from the RED MX could have looked so much better than what was achieved. There are tons of tests out there with almost the same configuration and this footage looks like crap compared to the rest of them.
John Brawley
Well-known member
You should relax. it's just a camera. I don't have an issue with the F3. You suggested I should have tested a combination that isn't even possible to test. I said I wasn't overwhelmed by the camera. Hardly strong language, or even denigrating. You questioned my choice of another camera that in your opinion was inferior. I explained why I chose it. What's the problem here ?
It doesn't matter does it ? Cause I HAVE chosen to use it. I made an informed choice that went beyond the parameters you think are important. I know the limitations of my inferior cameras and chose them anyway. The specs that matter to me are different to the specs that matter to you. We're allowed to co-exist. And I'd rather be driven by emotion than logic.
I'm using an AF100 with native m4/3 mount lenses. That's a lot smaller than the F3, the Alexa or the RED.
How about you allow me the same credit ? I've shot and tested with all the cameras being discussed here. Just because it doesn't tally with your own views doesn't make them less valid.
jb
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John Brawley
Well-known member
Sorry to disappoint you. As I mentioned in the blog, this was not graded or prettied up. Just shooting with what was there.
also,
From the SCCE.
jb
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Thanks for the thorough response John. Really appreciate it. I'll continue to follow you over at your blog and on twitter. And good luck with the David Hyde Pierce film. It sounds like audiences are really enjoying it. I just watched the trailer and it looks like a lot of fun!
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Different tools work for different people. I am moving to the FS100 because I think the AF100 is too big for what I do, but that doesn't mean I don't think my AF100 shoots wonderfully. Just because you would pick the F3 over another camera doesn't mean everyone would. At $12k compared to $4.7k for the AF100, that is a SIGNIFICANT difference in price, so it *IS* a factor in deciding. I absolutely think the F3 is too big for what I want in a camera. And that is beyond price. Sure, it shoots beautifully from what I see, but there are other factors which are important to other people.