AJA CIon Try

oron cohen said:
- Codecs wise, this camera from what I understand could do 12bit 4K 444, is that correct? I wonder if anyone knows if the Ursa mini does only 10bit 444 but not 12bit in prores...
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That's not correct. Not only does the URSA currently do 12bit 444 4K and RAW internally (as will the URSA mini), but it also can currently do 12bit Prores 444 XQ, Apples latest high quality Prores codec. V2's of the original 4K sensor can also do 120fps RAW or Prores internally. I believe the Cion needs an external recorder to do the same?
 
Steven Abrams said:
That's not correct. Not only does the URSA currently do 12bit 444 4K and RAW internally (as will the URSA mini), but it also can currently do 12bit Prores 444 XQ, Apples latest high quality Prores codec. V2's of the original 4K sensor can also do 120fps RAW or Prores internally. I believe the Cion needs an external recorder to do the same?
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When I wrote "this camera from what I understand could do 12bit 4K 444, is that correct?" by "this" I meant the Cion, are you saying that the Cion can't do 12bit 4K 444? Does ProRes on the Ursa 4.6K is always 12bit in all flavours(LT, 422, 422 HQ etc) or only at XQ? I'm asking again because it's not written on any spec sheet I've seen, Blackmagic didn't specify they could do 12bit in Prores, only Raw. AJA did say 12bit on the spec sheet. Could you please link to any written source confining 12 bit Prores on the Ursa 4.6K?

Thanks.
 
I really think they need to get a better sensor and colormetry into the camera ASAP. I just haven't seen any pictures out of the camera that I've liked so far. Feature-wise the camera seems pretty solid to me, but the sensor and underwhelming colour rendering lets it down.
 
there are nice shots there, but blacks are so deep that details are completely lost. I like it on some parts of the image, but not where details are important.
Maybe it's just a matter of grading.
 
DLD said:

Their NAB show reel.
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It looks nice to me. I think this camera is fine for narratives. In college people often fall for the girl who creates the most tantrums. Same things seem to be happening here with respect to cameras. In comparision to Black Magic, the AJA Cion may look plain Jane, but the Cion should be more reliable and I guess won't ditch you when you need her the most. :D
 
"the Cion should be more reliable"
As a first camera from a company? I know you're talking metaphor here..but this is something to consider. Although, AJA might do cartwheels for customers over time to stand out...just don't know.
 
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My partner and I were sent a CION. I have shot with it. Excellent ergonomics and very nice image. Not on par DR wise with the BM cameras but definitely higher than 8.2 stops. My educated guess would be around 10 or 11. The color rendition is really nice -- especially the blues. Indiawilds is right. It's not a (verite) documentary camera. You need to take some time to light your scenes and get your ratios right...
 
At this point the Cion is out of the picture for me. IMO there are enough reviews and samples that demonstrate the Cion's IQ is plainly underwhelming, and maybe a couple reviewers who are outright ridiculous for making exaggerated, unsubstantive claims about 'amazing performance' in the face of even their own unremarkable test samples. Moreover, the demo footage for the 4.6k Ursa looks beautiful, a world apart from the Cion's demo, though I guess I'll wait to pull the trigger until the 4.6k early adopters flag all the bugs. And the FS7 IQ is miles ahead too. I had given up on BMD for a while, but if they support the 4.6k more attentively/faster than the previous cameras, then I'm in. All that's left is to buy sticks and a head for a 20lb camera body... lol... I guess you can't have it all. It's gonna be a PITA to work with, but if the IQ is like the previous cameras with added DR minus the black sun and FPN, I think it'll be more than worth it for the price.

Something I haven't seen from the Cion is HFR. But if anyone happens to have the Corvid setup and a Cion, if you can post a 120fps test that'd be really cool. I still don't understand AJA's hfr solution, outside of a studio setting it just doesn't work in form or price for anyone targeting a $9k camera. There's just a very small ember of hope burning in me that AJA will get a new sensor and a concise hfr solution, but it probably won't happen in my time frame, which is too bad because the camera ergonomics, aesthetic, and the connectivity is so well designed. Best of luck to you guys at AJA, as your first camera I think you did an ok job, but no doubt your subsequent ones will get better.
 
I am in the camp on the Ursa Mini. The only thing I would like to see is a way to put a speedbooster on for my leica glass, outside of that I think this camera is the best bang for the buck right along side the FS7.
 
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poormanwally said:
Something I haven't seen from the Cion is HFR. But if anyone happens to have the Corvid setup and a Cion, if you can post a 120fps test that'd be really cool. I still don't understand AJA's hfr solution, outside of a studio setting it just doesn't work in form or price for anyone targeting a $9k camera. There's just a very small ember of hope burning in me that AJA will get a new sensor and a concise hfr solution, but it probably won't happen in my time frame, which is too bad because the camera ergonomics, aesthetic, and the connectivity is so well designed. Best of luck to you guys at AJA, as your first camera I think you did an ok job, but no doubt your subsequent ones will get better.
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I heard some noises at NAB that suggested that AJA had a sensor upgrade in the works (not a user installable upgrade), but I don't know whether or not that person was just being optimistic, in error, or that AJA was just being mum about it. It's quite possible that they're working on a sensor upgrade but unlike Black Magic not willing to repeat the mistake of announcing before they're ready to start taking orders.

Regarding the HFR bit, I suspect that the most likely solution will end up being an Odyssey 7Q+ or Shogun or similar solution, basically an external recorder with a RAID solution and either QuadLink SDI or 12G SDI. In theory, the Odyssey 7Q+ CAN support 120fps because it can record to both drives in a striped RAID configuration, but it's anybody's guess when they'll have that working. The Shogun is questionable, since it only has one hard drive port, but maybe it has enough bandwidth for a dual RAID drive to work, assuming that they resurrect their RAID caddy?

Just guessing.

Either way, I'm still leaning toward an Ursa Mini, but also plan on trying out a Cion, hopefully on a short film project this summer. And hopefully also some nature footage.
 
Tamerlin said:
I heard some noises at NAB that suggested that AJA had a sensor upgrade in the works (not a user installable upgrade), but I don't know whether or not that person was just being optimistic, in error, or that AJA was just being mum about it...
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It's been brought up here ... often by the yahoos like myself.

Theoretically, I guess, it's possible, as is the case with the reworked 4.6K URSA. CION will need to find a solid sensor supplier first though. IMO, the product was a year behind the curve when it was first released anyway and, if it needs another year to work out the kinks, its designers will need to look two years into the future. By that point, a $10,000 camera will need to be 6K or higher. That may require upping the available bandwidth, use of the related media, etc. And, if you have to rework the whole shebang, you may as well start from scratch.
 
DLD said:
It's been brought up here ... often by the yahoos like myself.

Theoretically, I guess, it's possible, as is the case with the reworked 4.6K URSA. CION will need to find a solid sensor supplier first though. IMO, the product was a year behind the curve when it was first released anyway and, if it needs another year to work out the kinks, its designers will need to look two years into the future. By that point, a $10,000 camera will need to be 6K or higher. That may require upping the available bandwidth, use of the related media, etc. And, if you have to rework the whole shebang, you may as well start from scratch.
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I heard it from a vendor. I don't want to menton which one, in case he was mistaken.

Given that they worked on that camera for five years, I'd hope that they planned for at least one generation of sensor upgrades.
 
funkyshepherd said:
Looks like the CION just got a lot cheaper...

https://www.aja.com/en/news/top-stories/345
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wow! I was a bit sceptical if they'll do something like this, but hold and behold they did! there is still the 3400$ (including shoulder pad etc) same sensor BMD Ursa mini with 5" HD screen included, and Cfast cards and dock are still cheaper and will get cheaper as time goes by vs AJA pack Media (anyone notice just the dock for the media cost 400$). also it's still feel like BMD manage to squeeze a little bit more DR from the same sensor and the highlight roll off look slightly nicer.

In any case, this move is certainly a move in the right direction!
 
It's a panic move. They need to get rid of the inventory. Each day these cameras occupy shelf space they get one day older.

Too bad. There's still a market for a decent $10,000 camera. Cion was getting great press after NAB'14.
 
AJA is offering some seriously deep discounts on a lot of stuff, it seems... interesting. Also ironically this discount makes the Cion actually more cost effective and versatile than the Mini due to the interchangeable mount.

It does of course seem logical to theorize that this is a pre-emptive response to the 4.6K sensor that the Ursa and Ursa Mini will be introducing. If AJA has a long view with a plan for a sensor upgrade, then this could be a way to gain market share before getting swamped by BMD's 4.6K sensor launch -- and also a way to take advantage of any delays BMD experiences in launching it.

Or, they didn't plan beyond V1, and are unloading their inventory because they anticipate being steamrolled by the 4.6K sensor. :)
 
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