AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

If the Panny is 720p then it will have about 20% more resolution than deinterlaced FX1/Z1 footage?
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=Gary_McClurg link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=60#73 date=02/14/05 at 15:05:15]
I think it'll record the HD to the tape.  It'll have to until P2 cards come down for those who want to shoot in HD but can't afford the cards yet.
[/quote]

If one cant afford that cards, and HDX100 does HD only on these cards.... then it makes sense to buy a different camera...(like say, DVX)

whats the point of buying a rocket-charged car if you cant afford rocket fuel ? ::) stick with gas until rocket fuel gets cheaper... so that u dont pay extra for the features u cant use...

at present rate... 4-5 minutes of HD footage on $2000 4 gig card...?? is that a joke ? i can shoot 10minutes of video on my PHONE... hmmm.... maybe, with a slightly lesser quality ;D

seriously, very cool - but affordable only in 2007/8- by that time next cool cam will be out...
but i hope this HDX is under 5K and write to some sort of (new)tape...

also, as a still photographer...connecting to computer and controlling was cool when Nikon/Canon introduced it years back... use camera as external harddrive, focus, shutter release, edit inline... blah blah... even wireless data transfer (with nikon D2H)... cool on paper... v impractical in the field... unless confined to studio ....
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=75#78 date=02/14/05 at 19:56:51]Okay, so back to capturing and frame rate conversion -- um, I don't really know when it's done, but I believe that Apple provides a software Frame Rate Conversion utility.  I would guess that it would be employed after capture, but I'm not an FCP user so I can't answer that question.[/quote]

I've never done this, but I just read an article on kenstone.net about it:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/dvcpro_hd_workflow_balis.html

According to the article, in FCP "standard" frame rates (24, 30, and 60) can be selected for capture, and then duplicate frames are never written to disk. For other frame rates, you have to capture the footage as 60fps and then use the Frame Rate Conversion tool later on to strip out the extra frames.

As for multiple frame rates, you can evidently record multiple rates on one tape, but you should capture them separately.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=redindian link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=75#81 date=02/14/05 at 20:42:40]
at present rate... 4-5 minutes of HD footage on $2000 4 gig card...?? is that a joke ?[/quote]

Agreed that the price is ridiculous, but I think it's not quite as bad as you think. If the camera is 720p and only records unique data to the P2 card (i.e. doesn't record duplicate frames to artificially create a 60fps stream), then the 4GB card will hold about 10 minutes of 30p and 12 minutes of 24p footage. Still not great, but actually better than a lot of film cameras, especially if the camera has 2-4 P2 slots.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=xander76 link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=75#82 date=02/14/05 at 21:18:07]

I've never done this, but I just read an article on kenstone.net about it:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/dvcpro_hd_workflow_balis.html

According to the article, in FCP "standard" frame rates (24, 30, and 60) can be selected for capture, and then duplicate frames are never written to disk. For other frame rates, you have to capture the footage as 60fps and then use the Frame Rate Conversion tool later on to strip out the extra frames.

As for multiple frame rates, you can evidently record multiple rates on one tape, but you should capture them separately.[/quote]

Thanks for the link, xander76.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

If does hold up to 12 minutes per card that would equal a 1,000 foot load of 35mm film, and as your shooting you can download the other card to your hard drive.

I've been wondering if it can record to the card and tape at the same time. That way you'd always have a tape back up if something happen.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

Yeah, the problem with P2 at these price levels is that you have to bring an archival system with you, 60 GB drive solutions notwithstanding. Not too convenient if you're out for a not-so-short period of time. It will be interesting to see if the HD records to tape at all. With some of the video codec formats, would it even be possible to record HD video to DV tape (which maxes out at 25 Mbps, right?)?? I'm expecting that the HD will only go to P2, but would like to see if any alternatives are possible.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=GregJacobson link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=75#80 date=02/14/05 at 20:34:45]If the Panny is 720p then it will have about 20% more resolution than deinterlaced FX1/Z1 footage?[/quote]
[quote author=GregJacobson link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=75#80 date=02/14/05 at 20:34:45]If the Panny is 720p then it will have about 20% more resolution than deinterlaced FX1/Z1 footage?[/quote]
Well, it depends on how you define resolution. And how you de-interlace.

The Sony claims 1080i resolution, but you do *not* get 1080 individual discrete pixels of resolution, you get more like 775. So if you do a straight de-interlace of 1080i footage, doubling the fields, you'd end up with a resolution on tape of somewhere around 1440 x 388, for a pixel count of about 560,000.

The Panasonic can only be speculated as to what it can do, because it doesn't exist yet. However, since Jan has already confirmed 24p, and since DVCPRO-HD records in either 1080/60i or in 720/60p, it's probably a safe bet to guess that the camera will be using the 720p mode. Because it's progressive, and because Panasonic's already shown innovation in de-activating the interlace blend filter when going to progressive-scan mode, we can probably expect that the camera will be able to resolve 720 individual scan lines. Which means an on-tape resolution of perhaps 960x720, for a pixel count of about 700,000.

HOWEVER: that's guessing that you'd use a straight field-drop de-interlace. You don't necessarily have to do that -- if you use CineFrame 25 or CineFrame 30, it appears to give you a full field of information, 540 lines. That would give you a pixel count on tape of 1440x540, or about 778,000.

Then there's the prospect of using something like DVFilm Maker software, which can use "smart de-interlacing" to only cut resolution on areas that show movement. That means sometimes you'd have 775 lines, but sometimes 388.

So by raw pixel counts, they're both in the same ballpark as each other. But this ignores one VERY IMPORTANT factor: compression. On shots with motion, HDV resolves much less resolution than it does on static shots. How much less? Depends on how much detail and motion is in the shot. I've seen the codec fall apart, but I've also seen it look pretty razor-sharp. So that's a variable you just can't account for yet. And it can bite you when you least expect it.

Furthermore, there's the compounding factor of: how does CF25/CF30 affect the compression? It's my guess that since the image has less overall detail than an interlaced frame, the compression should be more efficient, meaning that it's less likely to "fall apart" or soften up. So there may be circumstances where you actually get more ACTUAL resolution from CF25 than you would from interlaced! I don't know that that can actually happen, but in theory I can see how it'd be possible.

Okay, so what does all this mean? Nothing at all. Just fun with numbers. Until we can stack the cameras side-by-side, it's all just speculation...
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

I think Panny knows the market of potential HDX100 users very well. If the camera is good enough, people who were originally prepared to spend $4k on a DVX100 will find a way to shell out $6k, $8k, $10k on an HDX100. In addition to this, its going to hit a market of buyers who have no problem at all spending $10k+ on an HD camera, that will be an absolutely steal to them.

And for P2 cards...I think this technology will drop in price in the next few years where a 8GB card cost what a Digibeta tape cost today. It will definitely become an archival format and those manufacturering it will make some nice money.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=natob2 link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=75#88 date=02/15/05 at 08:13:33]And for P2 cards...I think this technology will drop in price in the next few years where a 8GB card cost what a Digibeta tape cost today.  It will definitely become an archival format and those manufacturering it will make some nice money.[/quote]
I don't think P2 cards are at all viable as an archival format. Maybe if the price of a 64GB unit costs less then $20... but I don't think we'll see that within the next 5 years... But it would be nice if I'm be wrong. ;D
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

If you consider that 5 years ago a 250GB hard disk running at 7200 was only available in a seagate raid SCSI set-up and is now standard without SCSI, I think P2 is going to advance very quickly.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

I certainly hope you are right! Sonner then later would be preferable.

I also hope that Pany will not cripple the DVCProHD specs on the HDX100 in any way. 1/3" is already bad enough, as it will surely hamper low light performance for events where lighting the scene is not always an option. Although it will probably not be as bad as the FX1 (1080 on 1/3" vs. 720 on 1/3"). I guess we'll see.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

I don't think this camera is aimed towards the event videographer. I'm sure that it will have provisions to be used as an event camera, but every single thing about this camera screems film making only.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=scharky link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=90#92 date=02/16/05 at 11:54:53]I don't think this camera is aimed towards the event videographer.  I'm sure that it will have provisions to be used as an event camera, but every single thing about this camera screems film making only.[/quote]
Sharky, I'm affraid you're right. But it would be a mistake to limit the scope of this cam; afterall 60p (other then for doing nice slow moes for 24p shoots) is a perfect frame rate choice for event and sports videography. Alas, P2 cards are too restrictive for long form events (but well suited for filmmakers). That is why some form of direct to disk recording (such as the Firestore) would be mandatory.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

I think that's where the direct to disk recording will come into play.
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=Jan_Crittenden link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=60#69 date=02/14/05 at 14:53:35]
Frankly interframe compression, 4:2:2 color space, uncompressed audio, and real 24P will surpass the HDV format any day.  
[/quote]

Correction folks, it is intraframe compression, which means within the frame. Sorry, Interframe compression is MPEG.

Best regards,

Jan
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=Flintstone link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=90#93 date=02/16/05 at 13:15:06]
Sharky, I'm affraid you're right.  But it would be a mistake to limit the scope of this cam; afterall 60p (other then for doing nice slow moes for 24p shoots) is a perfect frame rate choice for event and sports videography.  Alas, P2 cards are too restrictive for long form events (but well suited for filmmakers).  That is why some form of direct to disk recording (such as the Firestore) would be mandatory.[/quote]

You could be right, Fred, but that's Panasonic's problem. :)
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=90#96 date=02/17/05 at 10:25:35]
You could be right, Fred, but that's Panasonic's problem.   :)
[/quote]
Which then in turn becomes ours. But then, perhaps some of us expect too much from a company that has given us so much already. ::)
 
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com

[quote author=Flintstone link=board=HDV;num=1108204915;start=90#97 date=02/17/05 at 11:31:04]
Which then in turn becomes ours.  But then, perhaps some of us expect too much from a company that has given us so much already.  ::)[/quote]

I don’t know why it would become our problem. If it turns out to be the fantastic indie filmmaker’s tool that it looks like it could be, it matters not at all to me that it isn’t suited to the event videographer. If the line fails because it isn’t versatile in that way, it doesn’t keep it from being a great tool for filmmaking. Once I got mine (if indeed I decide it suits my needs), frankly, I don’t care if Panasonic takes a bath on it.
 
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