AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
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Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
"The camcorder will record to MiniDV tapes, however it will also have a P2 card slot. The P2 card format was introduced by Panasonic as a tapeless news gathering recording format. The cards contain a matrix of smaller secure digital type cards and cost upwards of $4,000 each"
$4,000 Each ????
Whoa!!!
"The camcorder will record to MiniDV tapes, however it will also have a P2 card slot. The P2 card format was introduced by Panasonic as a tapeless news gathering recording format. The cards contain a matrix of smaller secure digital type cards and cost upwards of $4,000 each"
$4,000 Each ????
Whoa!!!
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
The Press Release lists this as a "ProSumer" Camera ...
The higher your price point, the tougher it is to reach the "ProSumer" Market ... Don't forget, Panny will have competition in the HD arena ( JVC, Sony, ? ) and also don't forget no matter how you cut it, this is still a 1/3" CCD Camera, which means your markup has to be limited ...
Still nothing but pre-pre-pre speculation ...
The Press Release lists this as a "ProSumer" Camera ...
The higher your price point, the tougher it is to reach the "ProSumer" Market ... Don't forget, Panny will have competition in the HD arena ( JVC, Sony, ? ) and also don't forget no matter how you cut it, this is still a 1/3" CCD Camera, which means your markup has to be limited ...
Still nothing but pre-pre-pre speculation ...
Flintstone
Well-known member
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
Whoa! I'm excited!
Whoa! I'm excited!
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
Camcorderinfo isn't necessarily known for its "hard news". However, apparently Jan responded to Steve Mullen's post on creativecow, and didn't deny anything (nor did she confirm anything either). So, take it for what it is -- an unauthorized "leak", which may or may not be accurate, may or may not be based in fact.
The only thing Jan did say, that I heard new, was the inclusion of DVCPRO50, and she also confirmed that it will have 24p! DVCPRO50 means 4:2:2 color sampling for standard-def, which should mean exquisitely better chroma keys, when shooting for SD. And 24p means that this will be *the* filmmaker's camera (er, other than film, of course)! Now it remains to be seen just how far "under" $10,000 it will be.
Interesting that Steve said it will have tape and P2. I was hoping it would. Now I just hope it can record HD and DVCPRO50 data on that tape!
As far as I'm concerned, we now have confirmation from Jan that we'll see a high-def DVCPROHD/DVCPRO50/miniDV camera, with 24P and P2 recording, for "under $10,000". But previously we'd been told it'd be priced "competitive with the Sony"... so, people can spread rumors or speculation if they want, but I'd still want to see an official announcement from Panasonic.
Camcorderinfo isn't necessarily known for its "hard news". However, apparently Jan responded to Steve Mullen's post on creativecow, and didn't deny anything (nor did she confirm anything either). So, take it for what it is -- an unauthorized "leak", which may or may not be accurate, may or may not be based in fact.
The only thing Jan did say, that I heard new, was the inclusion of DVCPRO50, and she also confirmed that it will have 24p! DVCPRO50 means 4:2:2 color sampling for standard-def, which should mean exquisitely better chroma keys, when shooting for SD. And 24p means that this will be *the* filmmaker's camera (er, other than film, of course)! Now it remains to be seen just how far "under" $10,000 it will be.
Interesting that Steve said it will have tape and P2. I was hoping it would. Now I just hope it can record HD and DVCPRO50 data on that tape!
As far as I'm concerned, we now have confirmation from Jan that we'll see a high-def DVCPROHD/DVCPRO50/miniDV camera, with 24P and P2 recording, for "under $10,000". But previously we'd been told it'd be priced "competitive with the Sony"... so, people can spread rumors or speculation if they want, but I'd still want to see an official announcement from Panasonic.
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1108163059;start=0#9 date=02/11/05 at 21:41:28]Interesting that Steve said it will have tape and P2.[/quote]
I saw that the camcorderinfo article said it would include tape recording, but I didn't see anything in Steve's post about tape recording. Did I miss something?
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1108163059;start=0#9 date=02/11/05 at 21:41:28]Interesting that Steve said it will have tape and P2.[/quote]
I saw that the camcorderinfo article said it would include tape recording, but I didn't see anything in Steve's post about tape recording. Did I miss something?
Jaime Valles
Veteran
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
Totally awesome!!!!
Do you think it would be possible to record directly into a laptop through firewire with an external hard disk? We can do it now with any NLE and MiniDV, but what about DVCPRO50 or HD? Too much bandwith?
If recording direct to hard disk is possible, this would seriously be the ultimate indie filmmaker camera.
Just curious... How much Disk space does an hour of DVCPROHD take up? MiniDv is something like 14GB per hour. What about DVCPRO50?
Totally awesome!!!!
Do you think it would be possible to record directly into a laptop through firewire with an external hard disk? We can do it now with any NLE and MiniDV, but what about DVCPRO50 or HD? Too much bandwith?
If recording direct to hard disk is possible, this would seriously be the ultimate indie filmmaker camera.
Just curious... How much Disk space does an hour of DVCPROHD take up? MiniDv is something like 14GB per hour. What about DVCPRO50?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
Any speculation of what you can or cannot do is simply that -- speculation -- until specifications are released.
So -- can it record directly to a laptop? Don't know. But I do know that it can do something much better -- you can pull the P2 card out of the camera and stick it right in your laptop and be able to edit right then and there. Or copy it to your laptop's hard disk. It's better because you aren't chained to the laptop -- you could go roam in the field, gather footage, and when the memory card's full, then plug it into the laptop and offload the footage. Steve Mullen claims that Panasonic's also talking about a miniature card reader/hard disk combo thing, which would let you offload your P2 cards onto a hard disk without even needing a laptop! We'll see if that's true. But P2 is already available on the SPX800 camera, and those P2 cards can be slid right into a Laptop's cardbus slot.
Also, with the SPX800 you can use the camera and its memory cards as if they were an external USB hard disk... i.e., you can plug the camera into the laptop and the laptop will recognize the camera as a hard disk, letting you access the contents of all its memory cards. It remains to be seen if the new camera (the supposedly-named HDX) can do that.
As far as space, it's an easy formula to calculate: DV data is 25 megabits per second, DVCPRO-50 is 50 megabits, and DVCPRO100-HD is 100 megabits. So DV takes about 13 gigabytes per hour, DVCPRO-50 will take about 26 gigs per hour, and DVCPRO-HD is about 52 gigs per hour (or, easier stated, somewhere around a gigabyte per minute).
Any speculation of what you can or cannot do is simply that -- speculation -- until specifications are released.
So -- can it record directly to a laptop? Don't know. But I do know that it can do something much better -- you can pull the P2 card out of the camera and stick it right in your laptop and be able to edit right then and there. Or copy it to your laptop's hard disk. It's better because you aren't chained to the laptop -- you could go roam in the field, gather footage, and when the memory card's full, then plug it into the laptop and offload the footage. Steve Mullen claims that Panasonic's also talking about a miniature card reader/hard disk combo thing, which would let you offload your P2 cards onto a hard disk without even needing a laptop! We'll see if that's true. But P2 is already available on the SPX800 camera, and those P2 cards can be slid right into a Laptop's cardbus slot.
Also, with the SPX800 you can use the camera and its memory cards as if they were an external USB hard disk... i.e., you can plug the camera into the laptop and the laptop will recognize the camera as a hard disk, letting you access the contents of all its memory cards. It remains to be seen if the new camera (the supposedly-named HDX) can do that.
As far as space, it's an easy formula to calculate: DV data is 25 megabits per second, DVCPRO-50 is 50 megabits, and DVCPRO100-HD is 100 megabits. So DV takes about 13 gigabytes per hour, DVCPRO-50 will take about 26 gigs per hour, and DVCPRO-HD is about 52 gigs per hour (or, easier stated, somewhere around a gigabyte per minute).
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1108163059;start=0#12 date=02/11/05 at 22:26:41]DVCPRO-HD is about 52 gigs per hour (or, easier stated, somewhere around a gigabyte per minute).[/quote]
Sorry for being a pedant, but DVCPRO-HD's data rate depends on the frame rate. It is 100Mbps for 720p60, but we don't really know if this camera will support that framerate. My guess would be not, since 60fps is a pretty specialized application. At 720p24, on the other hand, DVCPRO-HD's frame rate is only 40Mbps, or about 20GB per hour.
(Note that we do not have confirmation yet that the camera will be 720p instead of 1080p, although I'd be willing to bet on it given the fact that it's a prosumer camera.)
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1108163059;start=0#12 date=02/11/05 at 22:26:41]DVCPRO-HD is about 52 gigs per hour (or, easier stated, somewhere around a gigabyte per minute).[/quote]
Sorry for being a pedant, but DVCPRO-HD's data rate depends on the frame rate. It is 100Mbps for 720p60, but we don't really know if this camera will support that framerate. My guess would be not, since 60fps is a pretty specialized application. At 720p24, on the other hand, DVCPRO-HD's frame rate is only 40Mbps, or about 20GB per hour.
(Note that we do not have confirmation yet that the camera will be 720p instead of 1080p, although I'd be willing to bet on it given the fact that it's a prosumer camera.)
Jaime Valles
Veteran
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1108163059;start=0#12 date=02/11/05 at 22:26:41]Any speculation of what you can or cannot do is simply that -- speculation -- until specifications are released.[/quote]
Absolutely. Nobody here knows what's coming up, but it sure is fun trying to guess
P2 cards are definitely the way to go for convenience. I'm just worried about the price factor... Assuming the "HDX" costs $4999 (total guess, btw), having to add another $4000 for a P2 card is scary. I know prices will eventually come down, but until then, I'd like to be able to connect the camera to a laptop and record directly, if possible.
That would seriously rock!!!!
Thanks, Barry. Boy, do I feel dumb!
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1108163059;start=0#12 date=02/11/05 at 22:26:41]Any speculation of what you can or cannot do is simply that -- speculation -- until specifications are released.[/quote]
Absolutely. Nobody here knows what's coming up, but it sure is fun trying to guess
P2 cards are definitely the way to go for convenience. I'm just worried about the price factor... Assuming the "HDX" costs $4999 (total guess, btw), having to add another $4000 for a P2 card is scary. I know prices will eventually come down, but until then, I'd like to be able to connect the camera to a laptop and record directly, if possible.
That would seriously rock!!!!
Thanks, Barry. Boy, do I feel dumb!
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
[quote author=xander76 link=board=nws;num=1108163059;start=0#13 date=02/11/05 at 22:37:18]Sorry for being a pedant, but DVCPRO-HD's data rate depends on the frame rate.[/quote]
Well, technically, no... I mean, I hate to out-pedant you, but it all depends on how compliant it is with the DVCPRO-HD standard. DVCPRO-HD is 100 megabits per second, always. With 8 channels of uncompressed audio. That's what the format is.
It is true that if you were recording 24p, only 40 megabits of that 100 would contain unique data. And if you had only two channels of audio active, the other six would be silent. However, there is no DVCPRO-HD device available that records a subsampled 40mbps/2-channel stream. You have to process it through the Frame Rate Conversion tool to extract out and discard the redundant frames to get to 40mbps.
It's possible that the P2 card would automatically do that, to optimize storage space, and maybe it would automatically only record two channels of audio to further save space... but then the files that are getting stored wouldn't technically be DVCPRO-HD compatible files, they'd just be data files that started out as DVCPRO-HD. If you wanted to record back out to tape, you'd have to add in duplicate frames again to bring the data rate back up to 100mbps, because that's what DVCPRO-HD is.
It's the same thing with DV... someone could argue that DV/24p is really only 20mbps, couldn't they? But on tape, it's stored as 60i/25mbps. So it is also with DVCPRO-HD -- every DVCPRO-HD device records 100 megabit streams and nothing else.
Unless I'm totally wrong, which wouldn't surprise me!
Well, I don't think that'll happen, I'm 99% certain it'll be 720p because that's what the VariCam is... but you just pointed out that we don't really know *anything* yet.
[quote author=xander76 link=board=nws;num=1108163059;start=0#13 date=02/11/05 at 22:37:18]Sorry for being a pedant, but DVCPRO-HD's data rate depends on the frame rate.[/quote]
Well, technically, no... I mean, I hate to out-pedant you, but it all depends on how compliant it is with the DVCPRO-HD standard. DVCPRO-HD is 100 megabits per second, always. With 8 channels of uncompressed audio. That's what the format is.
It is true that if you were recording 24p, only 40 megabits of that 100 would contain unique data. And if you had only two channels of audio active, the other six would be silent. However, there is no DVCPRO-HD device available that records a subsampled 40mbps/2-channel stream. You have to process it through the Frame Rate Conversion tool to extract out and discard the redundant frames to get to 40mbps.
It's possible that the P2 card would automatically do that, to optimize storage space, and maybe it would automatically only record two channels of audio to further save space... but then the files that are getting stored wouldn't technically be DVCPRO-HD compatible files, they'd just be data files that started out as DVCPRO-HD. If you wanted to record back out to tape, you'd have to add in duplicate frames again to bring the data rate back up to 100mbps, because that's what DVCPRO-HD is.
It's the same thing with DV... someone could argue that DV/24p is really only 20mbps, couldn't they? But on tape, it's stored as 60i/25mbps. So it is also with DVCPRO-HD -- every DVCPRO-HD device records 100 megabit streams and nothing else.
Unless I'm totally wrong, which wouldn't surprise me!
Excellent point -- we don't even know that! Now, DVCPRO-HD doesn't support 1080p natively... it's either 720p or 1080i... but who's to say Panasonic didn't just implement 1080/24p in a 1080/60i data stream (just like on the DVX)? Wouldn't that just be funny?
Well, I don't think that'll happen, I'm 99% certain it'll be 720p because that's what the VariCam is... but you just pointed out that we don't really know *anything* yet.
Stas_Tagios
Well-known member
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
All I know is, I can't wait for NAB! This camera sounds like another potential for a home run from Panasonic. I just hope I can afford it.
I'm still not sold on the P2 concept, however. Seems to me that the price and capacity of the storage media will not drop nearly fast enough to make P2 a viable recording format within the near future, even for broadcasters with the budget for it. The instant transfer of files to an NLE is attractive (especially for ENG crews), as is the whole "no moving parts"/camera robustness, but I like archiving all my footage and having tapes of it all makes it easy. If this camera does indeed record to tape and P2, that's a smart move by Panasonic.
All I know is, I can't wait for NAB! This camera sounds like another potential for a home run from Panasonic. I just hope I can afford it.
I'm still not sold on the P2 concept, however. Seems to me that the price and capacity of the storage media will not drop nearly fast enough to make P2 a viable recording format within the near future, even for broadcasters with the budget for it. The instant transfer of files to an NLE is attractive (especially for ENG crews), as is the whole "no moving parts"/camera robustness, but I like archiving all my footage and having tapes of it all makes it easy. If this camera does indeed record to tape and P2, that's a smart move by Panasonic.
Z
Zoomforce
Guest
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
I actually think the P2 format is brilliant.. They have had enough time to experiment with it with thier broadcast cameras, and a solid state solution is definately the future.. Given the price of media dropping the way it does it shouldn't be that big of a problem... specially for dramatic content where in a given day you wont shoot more then 10gb of data anyways.
I actually think the P2 format is brilliant.. They have had enough time to experiment with it with thier broadcast cameras, and a solid state solution is definately the future.. Given the price of media dropping the way it does it shouldn't be that big of a problem... specially for dramatic content where in a given day you wont shoot more then 10gb of data anyways.
Stas_Tagios
Well-known member
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
Call me old school, but I still like having my taped media that I can upload to my computer, then archive/store for safety (of course, you could always record your footage out to tape after it's on the computer... archiving ina kind of a reverse of digitizing taped footage into an NLE).
I guess digital photographers have accepted the entirely digital/flash media workflow, but I'm still stuck on my film and DV tapes. To me, resuable media somehow makes it seem like the footage you're shooting is disposable/ephemeral. Of course, tapeless is inevitable, but it'll be a while before I let go of the past. Doesn't mean I don't want an HDX100
Call me old school, but I still like having my taped media that I can upload to my computer, then archive/store for safety (of course, you could always record your footage out to tape after it's on the computer... archiving ina kind of a reverse of digitizing taped footage into an NLE).
I guess digital photographers have accepted the entirely digital/flash media workflow, but I'm still stuck on my film and DV tapes. To me, resuable media somehow makes it seem like the footage you're shooting is disposable/ephemeral. Of course, tapeless is inevitable, but it'll be a while before I let go of the past. Doesn't mean I don't want an HDX100
Z
Zoomforce
Guest
Re: AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com
Stas.... Panasonic musta been thinking about you then because if the report is true you have the option... hopefully you can record to tape and card at the same time.. so you retain a tape master that may never need to be played a single time.
Stas.... Panasonic musta been thinking about you then because if the report is true you have the option... hopefully you can record to tape and card at the same time.. so you retain a tape master that may never need to be played a single time.