AC160 AG-AC160 Problems - TRUE or FALSE??

Scout Pro

Scout Pro

New member
OK, the internet forums relating to Pro-Level Cams are lit up with what I call “Skittish” reviews of both the AG-AC130-160 AVCCAM Camcorders; I know most of what all forum members here know regarding the cams, their focus issues, so on and so on. Now, I have been a satisfied DVX 100B & DVC30 SD Camcorder user for over ten years and have come to both rely on and "Back" Panny's Professional Camcorders and for the most part, my work with the cams have made me a believer (i.e. I shoot weddings and for Broadcast Outdoor Media Companies). I understand that Panny has addressed several of the issues plaguing both the 160 & 130 cams in a firmware and/or hardware update and have also started the production of the "A" cams in both models which address these issues as well.

I have been getting reports now from a few Field Producers that the New Panny's (130 & 160) have not only a problem with the internal functions but the build quality itself is terrible, nothing to what they were used to in past Prosumer level cams (i.e. DVX100, HVX200, HMC150, etc.) This strikes me as odd. What has happened to Panny's actual camcorder plant production arena? Are increased labor costs driving the company to cut corners or perhaps rush products out while still not fully developed as a solid preforming piece of equipment? I've taken all the forum posts and info from the Field Producers with “a grain of salt,” still holding on to my confidence that Panny's cams are still "ONE" of the best quality camcorders on the market and the camcorder brand for myself - hands down. Then today in an unrelated post over at another popular pro-video forum site, I am reading a 7 page thread on the new Sony PMW100, a unique, but flawed camcorder as well (latter on this). A popular thread runner chimed in with this statement, I am with holding the posters name and have no issues with him nor the site; my issue lies with the validity of his research and experience with Pany's new 160 Camcorder. After reading this - I've had it and I needed some response and info of my own. I need confirmation that Panasonic's Pro Camcorders are better than what he and many have described and witnessed firsthand.

I am posing these questions and/or comments to both Barry Green and Jan Crittenden; please give us reassurance that this issue in which the unnamed forum member has encountered was a fluke, a mere "Lemon" so to speak. Can you give us a truly honest statement on why these new cameras seem to be so faulty? At this point, I would accept a true statement of bad production on the cameras rather than an over-exaggerated political-type answer. I will need a true HD Camcorder in the next 3 months and I have been researching since….. Do we ever stop researching and not know what is currently available out there on the market on any given day?? You get my drift; I need a dependable camera without manufacturing issues such as fan noise, zoom noise, build quality and DOES what the damn specs say it will do, etc. If not, I've lost my confidence in Panasonic and will be looking for another brand in which to choose. I dislike this; I hold no real brand loyalty and purchase cameras I deem will fit my needs and tastes. A camera is but a tool, I know this, but do not down grade a good tool in which everyone has come to know and appreciate.

I thank you for your time & consideration of this thread.

Here is the quote:

"Guess what - I just returned a Panny AG-AC160 to B&H. I had it for less than a day before I rejected it.

Although it looked good on paper, with the promise of AVCHD 2.0 1080/60p, variable frame rates, and a nice 22x wide-to-superzoom lens, it is a deeply flawed camera. For openers, the build quality was terrible. The buttons and switches rattle horribly; the sound comes through on the audio. The focus and iris rings feel scratchy and not smooth compared to Sony's. It also has zoom servo motors that whine with (compared to all the Sony's I have owned or tested) what seems like a banshee scream at all zoom speeds other than slow creep. I could hear them on every shot! The final straw came when I was sitting with it in a quiet room and realized I could hear the whoosh of the cooling fans!

So I boxed it up and sent it back. Another $50.00 shipping charge to UPS, and I am one return closer to B&H cutting me off from any purchases. ( This makes the 6th cam I have bought from them and then returned since October 2011.)

While on the B&H site I happened to notice this - the JVC GY-HM600U :
JVC GY-HM600 ProHD Camera GY-HM600U B&H Photo Video
I thought - WOW - is this real? Finally the cam for me?!? Everything looked perfect, it seemed to have everything I want ....

Then I saw the specs and it only does AVCHD 1.0 - 1080/60i !!!

waaaaaah .... yet again I am sobbing with frustration!!

Craig, surely this is a mistake? I mean, everyone is doing AVCHD 2.0 Progressive with 1080/60p these days. I am flabbergasted that this otherwise fantastic-on-paper cam is crippled with 1080/60i. The GY-HM600U is so close to what I need ...

Is there anything you can do to fix this? Say you can and I am prepared to sit on my $5K until October 2012!"

thanks,
 
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Well, that's a pretty loaded post there, and doesn't represent my experience with these cameras in any way, shape, fashion, or form. I don't know who you've been talking to or what their experience has been, all I know is that the AC160 is a pretty fantastic camera overall, and if it has ANY flaws at all, added up in their entirety, it's that it doesn't autofocus quite as well as the prior model did.

Build quality? Feels as solid and stable as my HMC150 and prior HPX170, and those things were indestructible tanks.

I would have ZERO question about my confidence in going into battle armed with an AC160 or an HPX250.

If you want a super-in-depth review from someone who knows a thing or two about cameras, read Adam Wilt's review here: http://provideocoalition.com/index...._ag-ac160_and_ag-hpx250_1_3_3-mos_camcorders/

Your post here is the first I think I've read in the nine months that the AC cameras have been out, that questions build quality!
 
People have agendas when it comes to cameras they either love or hate. The best thing you can do is get your hands on one. When I was thinking about getting my HPX250, I asked my salesperson to get me one in. I went there and met with the Panasonic Rep and they had a scene lit for me and he told me all about the camera. I had my concerns with the PAP1 setting and noise and I turned the camera away from the beautifully lit flowers and pointed it at a dark corner in PAP1 mode and had people run through it and I swished panned the camera and saw no problems. I guess what I'm saying is get in a room with the camera and see for yourself. I still find the HPX250 to be an amazing camera with an amazing picture. The HD picture looks just as good as anything else I've seen on local television commercials. And as far as build quality, I think it's a tank. And that should be the same for the 160 and the 130 since they share many physical attributes.
 
Barry,

Thank you for your honest and prompt response on this one. I have read the Adam Wilt Review and found it, like you, the Holy Grail to the testament of the AC160/130 lineup as of present; as I know Adam's work and experience levels, etc. You reaffirmed my confidence in Panasonic, not that I am easily swayed, but honest remarks from a fellow colleague really makes an impact in this crazy world we live in today. For myself, a Solo Soldier/Field Journalist, a cool $6k I do not have lying around nor is it growing on my money tree, no amount of miracle grow will aid it either! My investments need to count and they need to bank – just the cold hard facts of reality. I will purchase the AG-AC160 as I have been in the market for an HD Camcorder upgrade for the past 5 years. Down here in the South everything takes longer to trickle down; I do not get very many calls for HD acquisition as most folks here still have not updated their DVD’s with Blu-ray equipment. My operating range is the Gulf South with Home-base in New Orleans, LA. Only until recently have I had a real need for HD acquisition and it is now finally time to upgrade.

For the past 10 years I have made my side business a budding small production company using the DVX100B and the DVC30 Camcorders and out of those ten years I have had not a single issue, tape based and all. I take care of my equipment and perform routine maintenance when needed. That’s my “Testament” to Panasonic Cameras; you can see my confusion when getting a wealth of info regarding the inadequacies of the 160/130 cameras – completely opposite to what I have always been accustomed to with Panasonic Pro Gear.

Again, I appreciate your time and response to my thread and look forward to crossing virtual notes with you sometime again in the future. Take care.
 
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I never just buy something online that I dont know how it handels, I went into my local dealer and he spent over 2 hours showing me the 130/160 and 250 and then brought in their video only tech and spent another 2 hours showing me all the differances between the cameras. Then I was able to rent it and they deduckted the price of the rental from the final price. I was going to get a 160 but after using the 250 that is what I said I need for the next 5-7 years. Even though the 250 was more it made better sense for what I am trying to do. Also my dealer matched the big online store! Go to your local dealer, play with the camera's ask to rent it and then make your own decession based on facts and not someones rants. I love me 250 more and more. Dont take my word, try one yourself .
 
Hi Scout

I have had a few issues with my 130's but those have purely been suitability for my type of work. Both my 130's build quality and overall presentation was perfect and certainly I never had noisy servos nor rattling buttons!! My needs were simply different and I do need auto functions at weddings which the 130's never handled well at all. As a manual camera it has a stunning image, it performs 100% correctly and on mine I certainly never had anything that was of dubious build quality!!! I have been a dedicated Panny user since 1990 and started off with the old standard VHS full size tape cameras and even in those days build quality have always been superb!!!

Chris
 
I second the motion to go to a local dealer and put your own hands on it. I would think New Orleans is big enough to have a dealer?
 
I am 100% satisfied with my AC 160. I don't pretend to be an expert on the differences between one product and the next, I spent a year looking at specs and decided on the 160. End of.

I have no regrets regarding my choice.

My expectation is this camera will continue to be smarter than I am until it becomes obsolete.
 
I live in New Orleans ,LA would you believe we have no local dealer for Pro Camcorders. We have a distributor who can order cameras, but to walk into a quality Pro Video Store.... no where in site. Closest option is Houston,TX that I am aware of. Please let me know of any others if knowledgable. Thanks.

Chris, I also shoot numerous weddings annually,how big of an issue was the AF with the 130's? im all ears!
 
The author of that rant comes across as being a rather childish and immature person. Just look at how he makes a spectacle of himself. He is behaving like a drama queen. Almost like a child throwing a tantrum.

And he says that he has returned 6 professional camcorders to B&H Photo in the last 8 months? That really makes one wonder about him. Especially about his credibility. And if he really did return 6 camcorders, that would make me wonder if the real problem was not himself, and not all of these bad professional camcorders he was supposedly buying.

And the way that he ranted on about the upcoming JVC GY-HM600 ProHD. Did you consider his remarks about it appropriate? That is not even an AVCHD camcorder. It is a broadcast camera, that records in MPEG-2 Long GOP at 19, 25, or 35 bps. Now I admit that the product description on the B&H website is a bit incomplete, and thus may have mislead him some. But still, that means that he flew off the handle and condemned that JVC camcorder without ever bothering to visit the JVC website to verify the camera's specifications.

I'm surprised that you gave his post much credibility at all. Did the author ever actually post any video taken with the AC160, to document that he really did try the camcorder out?​
 
I found this original rant complaint about the AC160 on DVINFO.NET ( GOOGLE never ceases to amaze me. I just entered a single sentence from the post and it found it. )

The person who posted that rant is obviously a newbie without any real experience at all with pro video. It is clear from his posts that he is shopping for his VERY FIRST professional camcorder. He obviously is not a professional videographer of any kind. He does not appear to even be an amateur with any experience at all with pro video. He currently owns and uses one of Sony's better consumer camcorders, and edits video with the consumer version of Vegas. He listed 3 popular Sony Pro camcorders that he all bought from B&H and rejected as being crap as well. And I didn't notice a single video posted by him.

And he only joined DVINFO.NET 8 months ago, and has only posted a total of 34 messages since then. And about a fourth of those posts are in that one thread.

I could use some words to describe this fellow, but I really cannot think of anything flattering to say about him.

In many ways, he actually was in a very similar situation as myself. He joined DVINFO.NET last November, seeking advice and assistance in buying his first pro camcorder. I joined DVXUSER.COM a month earlier in October, also looking for guidance in buying my first pro camcorder.

But since the time that we both joined these respective forums:

I have posted 176 messages here on DVXUSER.COM, while he has posted 34 on DVINFO.NET

I purchased a Panasonic AC-130 from B&H Photo after being a member here for a bit over a month, and have been using it ever since. Meanwhile, he has purchased a total of 6 popular expensive camcorders from B&H in roughly the same timeframe, and has returned all 6 of them.

I'm slowly becoming a better videographer, although probably not as fast as I would like. This unfortunately fellow, though, is making absolutely no progress at all, as far as I can determine.

He is literally waiting for the PERFECT camcorder to be invented. He now says that he is waiting to see what new camcorders will come out this Fall, before he may try another.

In any event, that's the skinny about this guy who railed against the AC-160.
 
I have to concur with Lance about the rant. The Panasonic cameras are solid. No question. The other thing is support. I had my HPX250 for a couple of days and ran into questions that the manual could not answer. I called their support number. I had a call from a tech support person in a few hours who went over everything I needed to do. They followed up as well. We also have Jan Crittenden on here weighing in with support. You may not find that with other vendors.

The camera is a tool. Learn to use the tool. There is a wealth of support. I do not think you will go wrong with the AC130 or 160. It is a nice camera. Good luck,

Sincerely,
Bill
 
Thanks guys for the positive affirmation on the 160. Lance, your detective skills would impress Scottland Yard. After reading your post regarding the amateur skillset of the poster,it plainly obvious to me now. I have to second Barry Green's comment on Adam Wilt's detailed review of both the 130/160, he even discusses the HPX250 a great deal as well. Ive read the article it seems a dozen times and I still find sections of the review either I did not remember or have not registered properly yet; great example, just read over again and found that the 160 actually has an exposure meter similar to a DLSR. How well i preforms remains to be seens,any first hand comments on the exposure mter??

Thanks again!
 
The exposure meaning the level meter, that sits in the lower right corner? It's a little bar graph that grows to the left when underexposed, and grows to the right when overexposed, and is almost invisible at "perfect" exposure. In terms of usefulness it's great as a little spot-check, but there are much better exposure tools (primarily the zebras and the waveform monitor and the spot meter) that if precision is necessary, you can get exact precise readouts. If you want something simple to just glance at to know you're in the ballpark, the exposure meter works fine for that, but when you really want to know what's going on and want to get your shot exactly right, the AC160 and HPX250 have a plethora of tools to accomplish that.
 
kwkeirstead said:
My expectation is this camera will continue to be smarter than I am until it becomes obsolete.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have said it better!

There are auto focus issues that have been talked about to death. I'm very happy with my 160. I'll probably do the "A" modification when it comes out, just to keep my camera up to date. A lot of my work is boating related, and I've used my 160 in salty, windy conditions without any issues. The build quality isn't the same as Sony or Panny broadcast cameras, but look at the price difference. I also work a lot with Sony PMW500s in my day job, $25K WITHOUT a lens. I've cut my 160 footage together with the Sony 500 footage and liked the look of the 160 more.
 
Bought mine a few weeks ago and have shot 5 paid gigs with it so far. Yeah, I have had a very occasional focus issue, but I have learned how to handle it and its a good, solid cam. Build quality wise, I would rate it as being excellent. No noisy anything. Like Chris said just make sure its the right tool for your application. I do mostly theater and concert work, and use it for the most part in manual focus. No regrets here either.
 
Barry, that is correct - the small exposure meter, etc. Does the 160A have a live histogram readout?

JCHRISTIE, I too shoot often in salty conditions in South Louisiana in the GOM. Good info to know, thanks. Barry, your book that comes with the 160, is it available for sale by itself and if so, where can I order it?
 
No histogram is on any of the pro video cameras from Panasonic. They have a waveform monitor instead.
All the books I have are available separately, yes, just go to Amazon (or shortcut to my amazon store, www.fiftv.com). Thanks for the interest!
 
Scout pro, Barry is of course right, but the nice thing about the slr type exposure meter is that it is always on without having to press any buttons or obscure the screen- It is great when you only have a real time chance to get a shot-I love it! (also a new 160a owner of 2 weeks after many years with Sony.)

And yes, Barry's book is a must. He takes the somewhat user unfriendly manual and puts it into a logical and concise tutorial, explaining what happens and why rather than just" this does that". essential reading!
enjoy!
Rod
PS: With the quality control that is in place with all video camera manufacturers the ranting guy just cannot have been that unlucky. This camera is a solid piece of technology. Maybe the" rattling switch" was actually the OIS in "off" mode. This is also explained in the good Book! I have read everything the ranter has written and he is one unlucky bunny it would seem. I bet if he fell into a barrel of t*ts he would come up sucking his thumb!
 
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