AF101 Sky Banding

It is inherent to compressed 8bit video, unfortunately. Things get even worse in low light conditions where some shades gradients turn into bad posterization… This left aside, this is great HD camera! ;-)
 
I have had a few shoots recently where I was concerned about banding being an issue but it wasn't. One situation was shooting on blue seamless with plenty of gradients and it looked perfect. Maybe banding has to do with the combination of shade of blue and luminance gradient?
 
Hi all,

thanks for answers. Banding is present also if i use different scene file settings,and it is more visible if color and master-ped are accentuated (yes,of course).
Quoting Jan,i can say that Standard Cine D settings seems masks a little the bad effect.


Here a clip in Cine V,banding is totally absent:

http://www.mediafire.com/?4umw3m97cn25lx4


Blue Channel seems to be the most affected.....any other suggestion for limit it during a sky shooting?
 
Not sure of your quote for me, but are you saying that you are using all of the out of the factory settings and getting this? If not what are your new settings. I have been on a firewall all day so I haven't been able to look at your initial clip but will try to work it in once off the firewall. Which monitor are you seeing it on? Model number and make?

Thanks,

Jan
 
Hi Jan,
the last clip is only an example,not inherent to initial issue. Different scene file settings make different results in banding presence,and shooting conditions are crucial ( in fact last clip i posted is clean,even i have heavily changed the parameters).
First Clip is Scene File 1 Unchanged,but i stressed the camera with a lot of fast movements of lens zoom. I watched it on four monitors: A Sony CRT professional 9"monitor,MacBook 2008 model,Imac 27" 2010 model,and a Panasonic Viera TV G20 Plasma 50". The effect is almost the same in all views.

Thank you for your kind interest,if you can i wait a response. My camera is AG-AF101E S/N A1TDA0518 purchased at http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/. I currently registered it for "3 Year Warranty AVCCAM program".

Regards
 
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Not sure, I haven't seen much banding if at all on the camera. Now if I take the footage through cheap ass magic bullet looks and push the hell out of it, sure. It's 8 bit after all. But I've gotten pretty darn clean skies off the AF100 when monitored properly.
 
I try to avoid shots that can give me problems, but IMO as so many users has problems with banding and purple color fringe in the overexposed highlight areas especially when doing a pan, it is highly desirable that Panasonic fix this with a firmware update. I already said that I can understand that Panasonic doesn't want to give us a higher bitrate, but please at least find a way to fix these technical mishaps instead of trying to circumvent it. The worse case scenario is that the answer is: If you don't like what we are selling, don't buy it and if by "mistake" you bought one, live with it. It sounds extreem, but that is the way I feel it after reading all these threads. And don't get me wrong, I like the camera, it's just . . . .
 
As previously stated you can help this stuff by setting up your settings to include a bit more noise. It might even be noise that's impossible to see, especially outside in good light, but the way the camera will handle the footage should break up the banding a lot. You could even try in situations where you know it'll be an issue outside to up your ISO and drop your F stop to keep the same exposure but introduce even more noise. Outside with the camera having all possible light available to it this is an ideal option IMO because even at a high ISO it'll still come out really clean.
 
Kenny_G said:
I try to avoid shots that can give me problems, but IMO as so many users has problems with banding and purple color fringe in the overexposed highlight areas especially when doing a pan, it is highly desirable that Panasonic fix this with a firmware update. I already said that I can understand that Panasonic doesn't want to give us a higher bitrate, but please at least find a way to fix these technical mishaps instead of trying to circumvent it. The worse case scenario is that the answer is: If you don't like what we are selling, don't buy it and if by "mistake" you bought one, live with it. It sounds extreem, but that is the way I feel it after reading all these threads. And don't get me wrong, I like the camera, it's just . . . .
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I haven't had any real issues. Most banding should be caused by the camera being 8 bit, instead of something specific to the AF100. The FS100 will be 8 bit too. HDV was 8 bit.
 
Kenny G - if you expect a camera to be perfect for all shooting conditions straight out of the box I think you have your expectations too high, mate. Especially for a camera costing less than $5000. The Panasonic technicians would be running themselves ragged if they tried to come up with firmware updates everytime someone whips their camera around in a certain condition or zooms in on a specific shade of blue too quickly and winds up with some undesirable artifacts. It's been pretty clear through everything I've read here that this camera isn't the greatest for run n' gun situations, however with some tweaking of the settings it holds up pretty well. For those of us that intend to use it for situations where camera positions and lighting are controlled, this camera sounds perfect and I can't wait to get my hands on one in a few months. But, alas, there's always going to be someone that's unhappy about the camera in some way and if voicing that displeasure leads to something being updated in the firmware then great. I just think you can be a little more constructive with how you approach your criticism. Implying that those that purchase this camera are doing so "by mistake", when so many users are getting phenomenal footage from it by putting in some time and effort into adjusting the settings, is more than a little ludicrous... IMO.
 
plwells42 said:
Kenny G - if you expect a camera to be perfect for all shooting conditions straight out of the box I think you have your expectations too high, mate. Especially for a camera costing less than $5000. The Panasonic technicians would be running themselves ragged if they tried to come up with firmware updates everytime someone whips their camera around in a certain condition or zooms in on a specific shade of blue too quickly and winds up with some undesirable artifacts. It's been pretty clear through everything I've read here that this camera isn't the greatest for run n' gun situations, however with some tweaking of the settings it holds up pretty well. For those of us that intend to use it for situations where camera positions and lighting are controlled, this camera sounds perfect and I can't wait to get my hands on one in a few months. But, alas, there's always going to be someone that's unhappy about the camera in some way and if voicing that displeasure leads to something being updated in the firmware then great. I just think you can be a little more constructive with how you approach your criticism. Implying that those that purchase this camera are doing so "by mistake", when so many users are getting phenomenal footage from it by putting in some time and effort into adjusting the settings, is more than a little ludicrous... IMO.
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plwells42, Consumers deserve more than what you're suggesting.
 
More than what I'm suggesting? More than a camera that has interchangeable lenses, can shoot 1080/24p as well as a host of other VFRs, has a large sensor and costs less than $5000? Sorry, this consumer will be thrilled with this camera, even if I have to make some setting adjustments to work around any issues I might face with it. I have the confidence that Jan and the technicians at Panasonic will address any serious issues that crop up with this camera that can't be fixed with pressing a few buttons. Who could ask for better customer service than to have a rep that scours this forum and addresses issues?

Sorry, this is getting a little off topic. Is anyone else experiencing these banding issues? And please don't get me wrong... if this is something that can be fixed with a firmware update then that should be something to expect in some future update.
 
plwells42 said:
More than what I'm suggesting? More than a camera that has interchangeable lenses, can shoot 1080/24p as well as a host of other VFRs, has a large sensor and costs less than $5000? Sorry, this consumer will be thrilled with this camera, even if I have to make some setting adjustments to work around any issues I might face with it. I have the confidence that Jan and the technicians at Panasonic will address any serious issues that crop up with this camera that can't be fixed with pressing a few buttons. Who could ask for better customer service than to have a rep that scours this forum and addresses issues?

Sorry, this is getting a little off topic. Is anyone else experiencing these banding issues? And please don't get me wrong... if this is something that can be fixed with a firmware update then that should be something to expect in some future update.
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Upping the bit rate will not help. In my recent camcorder comparison between the af the fs and the f3 the banding on the af was strongest out of three. Even recording 220mb/s pro res hq on the Ninja made no difference. it's something the camera does. it's not perfect as you would expect for a camera to do so much for so little. I agree scene files are the way to tweak it or add noise in post.
 
Phillip if you were shooting an indi project 90% exteriors - 80% of which were full sun days on the beach or over the ocean - the other 10% at night/low light... Would you "personally" select the af or fs for such a project.

Disclaimer to all! I KNOW these are both great cameras - but I would value phillips opinion.

Best
LW
 
Lliam Worthington said:
Phillip if you were shooting an indi project 90% exteriors - 80% of which were full sun days on the beach or over the ocean - the other 10% at night/low light... Would you "personally" select the af or fs for such a project.

Disclaimer to all! I KNOW these are both great cameras - but I would value phillips opinion.

Best
LW
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tough one Liam, yes it's not ideal but you would get similar issues with Canon DSLRs. The only camera that will not do this out of the ones i tested would be the F3(with appropriate recorder) but any camera will do. A bit of post to even out the banding does wonders. They added a lot in that House episode due to the banding. You can't tell...
 
banding is an 8-bit lo-noise issue.

I worked on a Quantel Graphic Paintbox back in my past.

a £250k, 8-bit, 5k realtime retouching,
Rolls-Royce dream machine.

Best piece of kit I've ever used.

bit of banding in the grads? we added noise. problem sorted, job done. next...
 
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