AF100, my first impressions and some questions.
- Thread starter Adamsenoj
- Start date
dustylense
Veteran
?????? :huh: Where is this coming from?
Mike Harvey
Veteran
Masnart's post a couple posts back.
This forum is sooooo knowledgeable. The examples posted by Shooter and others demonstrate what can be achieved with the camera and it these that gave me the impetus to master the AF101. Yes it has taken time but the rewards are so great. One has to be realistic on getting value for money. Many people seem to think that a $5000 camera should be as good as a $30-40,000 model. This does not happen with other goods, cars etc so why this attitude with video cameras? You get what you pay for but with a bit of expertise you can possibly squeeze a little extra out of a product. Time and patience will be rewarded.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Chroma clipping is the issue that should be dealt with by Panasonic.
And Sony.
Seems Canon too.
And Sony.
Seems Canon too.
Shooter
Veteran
I agree with Bern.
If the hypothetical AF200 came out with just a new sensor or whatever stuff that deals with "clipping / roll off" better... that would be all I would want of this little camera for the purposes I put it to.
I prefer to shoot interior as well ...but I do have some considerable regard for those who can manage the AF100 outside. Particularly those with out a full truck of lights and gear to assist them!
If the hypothetical AF200 came out with just a new sensor or whatever stuff that deals with "clipping / roll off" better... that would be all I would want of this little camera for the purposes I put it to.
I prefer to shoot interior as well ...but I do have some considerable regard for those who can manage the AF100 outside. Particularly those with out a full truck of lights and gear to assist them!
Erik Naso
Veteran
I've found a scrim jim and a Mathews bounce board works pretty well for shooting talent outside. Both can be hand held. This would be for waist up shots so if you need full body your going to need a large silk on a butterfly and a bigger bounce.
Shooting outside is hard for any camera and all cameras look horrible when it's not done well.
Shooting outside is hard for any camera and all cameras look horrible when it's not done well.
No good reason? You don't think the OP was arrogant, obnoxious, demeaning to some of the posters that were trying to help him with his struggles? Geez.
Mike Harvey
Veteran
I didn't either... I thought he was quick to knock the camera, and unreasonably expected too much out of it... but he never struck me as "arrogant, obnoxious, demeaning to some of the posters".
rogar-BlackEye(DBG
mainstreetprod
Veteran
A few recent screenshots from my AF100, no color correction. Harder to use than the HVX, but certainly not impossible!
perhaps then i misinterpreted his emails in general. maybe they were just sheer panic on his part and not meant to challenge the helpful assistance others were trying to relay to him. I have no problem apologizing and saying that i must be in the wrong if i'm the only one that saw his emails this way.
i apologize to the board and to Adamsenoj for my incorrect interpretation of his posts.
i apologize to the board and to Adamsenoj for my incorrect interpretation of his posts.
jackelliott
Member
No need to apologise IMHO - I learned a lot reading this thread but thought he was puffing out his chest most of the time. Much more could have been accomplished using honey...
groveChuck
U-matic Member
Arrogant? Maybe not.
But me? I'm annoyed. Why?
We've all worked 12 hour days, and you're telling me you haven't had FIVE MINUTES to grab a few non-proprietary shots on a spare card during lunch, replicating the material you're unhappy with???
You can't set up A SINGLE LIGHT at home after your gig, specifically show us what you're talking about? Shoot a person, dog, cat, wall...something? ANYTHING???
But you CAN spend ALL THIS TIME HERE kvetching, without sharing a single grab or shot? Geez, c'mon man! You could make a short film in all the time you've spent on the forum!
Shoot some material, put it up, show us what you're having a problem with! Shoot 3 Gammas, say "I don't like this one because of this, and that one because of that..."
That is, if you want help. You do want help, don't you???
Phew, my first post like this. Ever. I got annoyed... But we're just going around and around in circles here... Curmudgeon mode officially over...
But me? I'm annoyed. Why?
We've all worked 12 hour days, and you're telling me you haven't had FIVE MINUTES to grab a few non-proprietary shots on a spare card during lunch, replicating the material you're unhappy with???
You can't set up A SINGLE LIGHT at home after your gig, specifically show us what you're talking about? Shoot a person, dog, cat, wall...something? ANYTHING???
But you CAN spend ALL THIS TIME HERE kvetching, without sharing a single grab or shot? Geez, c'mon man! You could make a short film in all the time you've spent on the forum!
Shoot some material, put it up, show us what you're having a problem with! Shoot 3 Gammas, say "I don't like this one because of this, and that one because of that..."
That is, if you want help. You do want help, don't you???
Phew, my first post like this. Ever. I got annoyed... But we're just going around and around in circles here... Curmudgeon mode officially over...
dustylense
Veteran
Yep, if you've annoyed GChuck, you've done wrong. Anyway, he's kinda right here. If you want help, state the problem you're seeing and post grabs. We don't even need many camera settings. I have a strong feeling the OP was trying to shoot scenes that even an Alexa would have issues with. But we don't know because nothing was shared in terms of a grab.
Again and finally. The AF100 is a very capable camera. For it's price and what you can get one today for, it might be the most well balance camera available. It's going on two years old now and I still shoot projects with it and I'm always happy with the results. If an image comes out poor, it's 90% my fault and not the camera. AND, if you can't shoot with an AF100, then it's quite possible you just can't shoot. Watch your waveforms, don't clip, tune the camera to your liking, and keep focus.
One quick tip for AF100 users. If you're shooting a pretty high contrast scene and need to flatten it a bit, try converting the footage with 5d2rgb using full range and play with the gamma settings.
Jon Hout
Active member
Chuck, I'm right there with you. I've been following this thread since page 1, and I have to say that I've refrained from jumping in because the OP didn't really seem interested in helping us help him. That said, I've been shooting with the AF100 consistently for over a year now, and I have to say that I learned a couple of things from the community's responses.
So... yay for Curmudgeons?
- Jon
I see this thread went to some weird places while I was out.
Well, I'm done with the shooting I was doing with the AF100. During the shot I learned a lot about the camera. I started getting better results with it too, but also found out that no matter what I do it's not a Mercedes and it will never be. All the limitations I found early on persisted, even if some other users insist in denying it. All I did was finding ways to work around them. But to say the camera is not limited is being delusional, sorry.
And I still stand by this comment. 10 stops is 10 stops. This has nothing to do with the camera not being able to render pleasing highlights and obligating you to grossly underexpose.
Again, I stand by this comment. How can somebody blow exposure on a camera that has a waveform monitor? This has nothing to do with having no option but either blowing the highlights to get correct skin exposure or getting underexposed skin not to blow highlights. But if you can't see your highlights are blowing when you have a waveform monitor you are either not using it or don't know how to use it.
So I don't see your point.
Well, I'm done with the shooting I was doing with the AF100. During the shot I learned a lot about the camera. I started getting better results with it too, but also found out that no matter what I do it's not a Mercedes and it will never be. All the limitations I found early on persisted, even if some other users insist in denying it. All I did was finding ways to work around them. But to say the camera is not limited is being delusional, sorry.
And I still stand by this comment. 10 stops is 10 stops. This has nothing to do with the camera not being able to render pleasing highlights and obligating you to grossly underexpose.
Again, I stand by this comment. How can somebody blow exposure on a camera that has a waveform monitor? This has nothing to do with having no option but either blowing the highlights to get correct skin exposure or getting underexposed skin not to blow highlights. But if you can't see your highlights are blowing when you have a waveform monitor you are either not using it or don't know how to use it.
So I don't see your point.
See, apart from the camera's obvious inability to handle the highlights on the white shirt I don't think that shot is overexposed at all, while the bottom shot is actually underexposed in my opinion. At least on my monitor here. This is what I mean when I say you have to underexpose with the AF100. The second image has no pop and looks flat and underexposed in my opinion. It definitely couldn't pass as a shot in a bright hot summer day. It's hard to get that mood in camera with the AF100 because the highlights will look ugly.
When there's no skin in the shot and specially when it's all either bright or dark as in your shots, then it's much easier to get good results. You set your iris to expose correctly the brightest side of the building and let the shadow side go dark and crush blacks. Can't really do that to faces though.
Talking about skins, while the highlight on her forehead looks OK, the highlight on the nose is bad, bad, bad and is the type of thing I'm talking about. If you knock the exposure just enough to get rid of that the image will start looking flat and underexposed. And while I could live with that highlight on her nose the way it is, if she starts moving around that highlight will take a life of it's own and cause havoc.
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Finally somebody who sees it how I see it that the end user shouldn't have to go through hoops and workarounds to deal with something that should have been dealt with during the design stages by the manufacturer.
I fully agree with this statement. But sometimes you do get more than you paid for or less than you paid for. The AF100 at the current street price of 3.5K is a fair price. But if it still sold for the initial price of almost 5K it would not in my opinion.
But regardless, there are those in denial that they have a 5K camera and expect results of a 30K model and those who have a 5K camera and are lying to themselves they are getting the results of a 30K camera because their camera is great and anything less is "operator error".
Of course I do. But bounce boards can only go so far in daylight outdoors and you can't always set up silks and HMIs on location in the middle of downtown. In a studio situation it's totally different.
Oh, so now I'm no longer incompetent and the camera IS actually limited?
I kid I kid. Hehehe.
Thanks!