AF100 Audio Input hiss (noise) and Audio Levelling Problems!

R

rudi

New member
HI there,
i have bougth a Af101 in December 2010 and used it a lot already.

The Audio Level wheel is not very accurate. If you turn it from the middle position only 1 mm down the input reduces extreme. It is very difficult to work with that professionally because you can't level the audio quick and exact.

The Audio Input Quality is very bad. A lot of hiss and very easy peaking.
We tested the Mic and Line Inputs with two different AF101 Cams, two different MICs Rode NTG1 and a Tascam DR100 Recorder in a relatively quiet room and it seems that Panasonic obviously used the cheapest peace of electronic they found in their company because the hiss is tremendous. Try it and please give feedback!

I think Behringer MIC Pres are much much better Quality.
 
I've not experienced these problems with my AF101. I'm using Sennheiser K6/ME66 and ME64 microphones into a Sennheiser wireless transmitter, with the output of the receiver dialled down to -30 dB and into the camera's XLR inputs. The resulting sound is pretty clean and I don't observe the hyper sensitivity of the input wheels that you report. I know the Sennheiser mics are pretty low end but getting them nice and close and turning the gain down a bit on mic wheels results in some nice crisp and clean dialogue audio for us.

I'd say my AF101's performance is very similarly to my HVX200's audio-wise.

Cheers, Hywel
 
We have always found any of the Panasonics we have owned ( DVX, HVX, AF102) to have all exhibited exceptional audio quality.

The XLR inputs on all of these have produced exceptional broadcast quality.

Sorry to advise but you have an OE or a hardware issue unique to what ever you are doing with this hardware.
 
Agree with Jan. Ive recorded a lot of audio direct to cam and have had as good results as with any camera Ive recorded direct to.

Is your audio set to LPCM as well?

This is your second thread of complaint about the AF100 and you only have two posts on the forum. Now Im not suggesting you arent having these issues, Im sure you are in fact. But I put it all down to user error. Please read the forum, get a grip on your camera. Then if you cant find an answer try asking a question in a manner conducive to receiving positive help from existing users.
 
Any weird audio problems I'v encountered with many bits of kit are related to phantom power being present where it was not required... just a suggestion..
 
I had a situation on a shoot with the AF100 where I was picking up inductive noise at the location. I had a brand new 50 ft. mic cable and I was getting a "buzz." I grabbed the 1 1/2 t. cable I use when mounting on the camera and it was clean. We thought it was the cable, ran out and bought 2 25' xlrs. With one 25' cable it was OK with both, same thing. Off that location I tested the 50' cable... clean as a whistle. I'm using the K6/ME66 and ME67. I mention this to point up the fact that there are many factors that can cause audio problems. Make sure you're impedance is properly balanced if you're using hi z mics, make sure you use a balancing transformer, etc. I'm going to get a couple of better shielded cables, myself ;) The camera audio input is clean from my experience.
 
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If you want quick exact professional audio adjustments on the fly, you might consider adding a professional field mixer into the equation.

As far as a noise issue with the AF100, we have not experienced any problems. But then again we bypass the internal mic pres and feed line level in from a mixer.
My only complaint... The AF100 needs a calibration function for broadcast standard -20 rather than consumer -12.

All the Best!

Dave
 
Hi there.

You've mentioned using the Tascam DR100.
The Tascam itself has a very noisy pre-amp. Can it be your problem?

Thanks.

Johnnie
 
I always have a very low level hiss from Sennheiser G3's but its really easy to use iZotope RX to cancel it right out...and yes, I do have its output down to about -30 dB, and the receiver output around -6 to -12. I'll have to hook it up to my SD 302 and see if I get the same result.
 
I have used a Rode NTG 3 Microphone which i already used for many recordings. i never had problems. Of course the Phantom Power is turned on while using this condenser.
I already work in the audio business for 14 Years.
I compared the Line output and the Headphone output of the Tascam DR100 with the Headphone output of the AF100 and the audio the cam records and it is definitly an issue.
Sure while the tascam is connected i switch to line input and turn the Phantom power of course.
Maybe it is an issue from the early Af101 Series because we bought our 2 Cams in december 2010. That were on of the first two Af101 in Austria.
I will post some audio files soon.
Sorry for my bad english.
regards Rudi


http://www.studiorot.at
 
David W. Jones said:
If you want quick exact professional audio adjustments on the fly, you might consider adding a professional field mixer into the equation.

As far as a noise issue with the AF100, we have not experienced any problems. But then again we bypass the internal mic pres and feed line level in from a mixer.
My only complaint... The AF100 needs a calibration function for broadcast standard -20 rather than consumer -12.

All the Best!

Dave
Click to expand...

+1 with the -20. It's something I've been complaining about since day one. Other than that, using a Sound Devices 302 the camera audio is excellent.
 
EidolonFilms said:
+1 with the -20. It's something I've been complaining about since day one. Other than that, using a Sound Devices 302 the camera audio is excellent.
Click to expand...

I've had no issues...I mostly use a 302(line lvl to cam) with a 416...although there certainly is some noise in the headphone out of the af100, it is nothing I haven't heard in any other cameras headphone out.
 
I have recorded a voice over with the RODE NTG-1 into the AF101 with no sound issues...it's as clean as a whistle...excuse the pun.
 
rudi said:
The Audio Level wheel is not very accurate. If you turn it from the middle position only 1 mm down the input reduces extreme. It is very difficult to work with that professionally because you can't level the audio quick and exact.
Click to expand...

I believe Rudi may be experiencing a mismatch of levels or impedance. Any time you have a drastic change in record level with a minimum adjustment of the wheel, as he describes, it sounds like input overload and not an internal design problem.

My experience in both mic/line, LPCM/AC3 is exemplary audio recording though, as Jeff says, use MixPre or similar device when ever possible and always set wireless mics to line level.

I'm using an older Sony short shotgun from my well used BVW-D600 as my AF100 on board mic for ambient sound recording with clean results.

I also believe that Rudi's english may lead some to see a harshness in his tone that he did not intend.

Just watched "Aus dem Leben gerissen" and "Österreich kann Wunder wirken" on Rudi's website - powerful!
 
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So .. have used the NTG-3 in the mic pre of the AF100 .. no problems ..

To the Senn. G3 user .. switch the input on the AF100 to line-level and increase the gain on the G3 receiver .. *waayyy* better
sound quality.

And .. if you care about sound quality .. don't use camera pre's .. get something like the Sound Devices MixPre ..
massive difference in sound quality.

jeff
 
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Now that i had time to make more tests, here some files i recorded with the Cam and one File recorded with the DR100 in the same room.
Link for the audio files (aprox. 5 MB): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17952975/AUDIO_AF101_TESTFILES.zip

1. CAM_REC_NO_IP.wav
Cam recording without Input source , LINE IP active, Phantom Power off, level at middle position, LPCM

2. NTG3_PhantomON.wav
Rode NTG3, Phantom Power ON, MIC IP, level at middle position, LPCM

3. Tascam_DR100_alone.wav
No Cam involved, you can still here a low frequency hiss (coming from the tascam MIC PRES) but much less and not so high.

4. Tascam_DR100_LINE_IP_NOPhantom.wav
Tascam DR 100 recorded on the cam, LINE IP, Phantom Power off, level at middle position, LPCM


I think the hiss is to much for a normal prosumer camera at this price range , what do you think ?

regards Rudi
 
what do you have the mic input sensitivity set to? -50 or -60?

Could you make sure the second channel's volume level is turned all the way down ?

Also .. one more test (please) .. switch your input to LINE level and record that please?

the "mid" position is a little hot on my AF100 .. I'm usually around the "10" "10:30" position.

jeff
ps: It's my opinion that the mic pre's on the AF100 are a bit noisy and so we don't use them.
 
The sensitivity is set to -50.
I will make another test with second level turned down.
i already recorded with line level on NR 1. CAM_REC_NO_IP.wav.
If i use a mono mic like the NTG3 i always use input 1 with lower lewel "10" to "10.30" like you and the second Input with higher level about "12".
I know that the Cam Mic Pre's are not the best and it would be better to use good outboard gear instead but, like i already mentioned, i think the inputs should not be so noise at this price range.
thx
Rudi
 
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