AF100 / AF101 - initial report

Homunculus said:
Barry when you kept referring to looking at the "backlit" DSC chart to test 10.5 stops DR for af100, what do you mean when you say backlit? I mean does this in any way affect the results? Just not sure if 'backlit' is a negative or positive thing, i.e. is it ideally supposed to NOT be backlit?
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Backlit = the right way to do it.

Front-lit charts mean that it's a printed chart, and you light it from the front and the light reflects off the chart. But there are limitations to just how much dynamic range a front-lit chart can really deliver.

Back-lit charts are transparent (or, well, let's use the right term, translucent). An example of a back-lit chart is the Stouffer 14-step wedge chart, or the DSC Ambi-Combi charts. A back-lit chart can deliver much more accurate results, much easier (because you're not dealing with reflections).

Art Adams used an 18-stop DSC labs backlit chart to test the 5D, in this article.
The chart I used was, I think, a 14-stop DSC labs backlit chart, and I counted 10.50 stops on the waveform monitor.

Barry was DR NOTICEABLY better than DSLR's like gh1 and 7d/5d when you poked around?
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Couldn't test side-by-side so I reserve judgement on that until I can test it in a controlled side-by-side scenario.

Plus, the camera isn't done.

I will say this, the DR matched (or was within a half stop) of the EX1, because the place I tested it at had an EX1 sitting there and I compared them both.

I mean how did highlights hold up and skin tones etc? 10.5 is close to original Red I believe, did the footage look anywhere close to original Red to you?
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I don't want to say that without putting them side by side. The original HVX200 looked gorgeous to me, but obviously it doesn't hold a candle to an HPX170 or AF100, so -- let's test'em side by side before making those assessments. I mean, everyone talked about how gorgeous the original Red One footage was, but it looks noisy and muddy compared to the M-X version, so ... let's not have nostalgia cloud our judgement, let's look at them side by side. And those tests will happen, but probably not for another couple of months.
 
impressive creations said:
1) Is this cam a CMOS or CCD? Rolling Shutter still an issue if it's CMOS?
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Yes it's CMOS. Rolling shutter is present, but much improved. Way better than an SLR, and I would ballpark it as feeling about the same as the Red One, EX1/EX3, or HPX370. I didn't test definitively, but I (and, of course, everyone at the booth) tried it and determined that it's pretty much not going to present any problems.

2) Is there ISO settings, like 100, 200, 400, 500, ~ 1600, 2000 ect...
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Yes, from 200 to 3200, when in FILM CAM mode.
 
bluesgeek said:
Just a though on AF. How usable is it in in AF100 for real shallow DOF? At 1.4 or 2.8, is it going to focus on the eyes or the nose, or the ears?
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Remains to be seen. I would guess that in general, autofocus would focus on whatever's closest and central in the frame, so maybe the nose. But if using the Face Detect autofocus, presumably (and that's an assumption!) it would know to prioritize the eyes in a face.

But that is untested, so I'll let you know next time I test a prototype.
 
editman said:
In the german video there is 1080i50 mode, no 1080p50 mode? Frame rates seams to be just like a HVX200.
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There is no 1080p50 mode. Doesn't stop you from shooting 1080p50 though; you'd just have to record sound separately. Record 1080/25p at 50fps, and play it back at 200% speed, and you'll have frame-accurate 1080/50p.

Frame rates aren't like the HVX200 (which had 12 steps), they're like the HPX170 (which has 20 steps).
 
xmephestox said:
I simply can't stand 8 bit sources anymore, it's outdated and limited.
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Limited, perhaps. But outdated? It's used on every camcorder on the market! (that isn't AVC-Intra, of course). And that includes the brand-new, just-introduced PMW350 and PMW500 from Sony and the XF300/305 and XF100/105 from Canon. 8-bit is the standard. 10-bit SHOULD BE the standard, I agree, but it isn't. 8-bit is the standard.

Even the Nano records in 8-bit.

8-bit has been accepted for unlimited acquisition, editing, and mastering by Discovery HD. It's accepted for unlimited acquisition by the BBC.

I agree with you, 10-bit is much better. But let's not present it as something it's not. 8-bit is the prevailing standard, it's used by every camcorder manufacturer for every recording format (excepting AVC-Intra) and it's accepted by broadcasters for mastering and delivery.
 
D10S said:
Barry,
How is the focusing compared to using a Letus or other adaptor? Does it have a pixel to pixel zoom for focus?
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No such feature was enabled in the prototype that I used. Focus was super-easy on shallow-DOF shots, and quite challenging on wide shots (exactly like when using an optical VF on a movie camera, it's the wide shots that'll bite ya). However, they have a colored-peaking feature that I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT! Argh, I want to kick myself -- or , well, kick THEM, for not letting me know about it! :D With the colored peaking, and the new higher-def LCD and VF, it should be easy-peasy to pull focus in all scenarios.

I have asked repeatedly for magnified focus assist to be included as well, and they certainly heard me. I hope it makes it in, but there's no guarantee.
 
Stephen Mick said:
10.5 if I remember correctly.
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You remember correctly. However, that last half-stop was iffy to me, depending on the noise floor. And noise is one thing they said definitely wasn't finalized, so it may be a solid 10.5 (or maybe 11!) on a backlit DSC chart when the final version is released. Or maybe it'll lose that last half-stop in an effort to make it as noiseless as possible.

That's the problem with reporting on a prototype -- "everything is subject to change."
 
Retrospective said:
Hey Barry, I guess you'll be working on the AF100 book so it will be released at the same time? ;)
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After using it, and after seeing the reception it got, I can now say:

I WILL TRY MY D*MNDEST!

But it depends on whether they give me access to prototypes, and how much changes between prototypes, and how confident I am in the last prototype representing the likelihood of it being the final version, and if I feel confident that I've adequately explored everything the camera is capable of and that I understand it well enough to explain it to the users, so that they are getting more than their money's worth.

If they don't let me have access to preproduction or prototype units, obviously I can't get the book done for launch, but -- that'd be my ideal goal. :thumbsup:
 
Vitaliy Kiselev said:
Most interesting part is to make adapters that make IS or VR work on Canon and Nikon lenses. They are quite antonomous things, and most probebly can work without camera assist.
It'll be huge plus to have such adapters.
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Totally agreed. And the fun part is that those same adapters will work on the GH1 or any other m43 camera too! :laugh:
 
Dude if it's 11 stops of DR this is the most revolutionary cam ever :). It will be the affordable Red One (non MX version). And you're right original Red blew everyone away especially when Peter Jackson did his littel war teaser with it and now compared to MX footage original Red looks like DSLR crap! Crazy how times change but I will be more than happy to have a 5-6k cam that's close to even an original Red ......
 
Vitaliy Kiselev said:
So, we'll see fixed interface languages?
As I don't know how otherwise prevent gray import (and price difference seems to be around $4000 depending on the region).
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I think the version I tested had like three languages enabled in it. But that's been a common thing in prototypes, whereas the US versions typically don't have different languages. European versions do (of course). I don't know what language support the various units will have, that's something we'll have to wait and see on.
 
I don't believe that will happen. The camera has a standard m43 lens mount on it, and the PL mounts I've seen so far have been mechanical-only. There would have to be some way to translate /i into something the M43 standard mount could interpret, and I don't think that's possible.
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
OK Barry... ready for a really crazy question?

Can it use the Cooke/Angeniuex/Red/etc lenses with /i technology? That would be wicked cool! I saw there was a PL mount at IBC, I believe Jan was holding it in an interview but I couldn't see close enough to make out if there was the iconic four i/technology contacts.

Not holding my breath on this! Just thought I'd ask. :)
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Barry_Green said:
After using it, and after seeing the reception it got, I can now say:

I WILL TRY MY D*MNDEST!

But it depends on whether they give me access to prototypes, and how much changes between prototypes, and how confident I am in the last prototype representing the likelihood of it being the final version, and if I feel confident that I've adequately explored everything the camera is capable of and that I understand it well enough to explain it to the users, so that they are getting more than their money's worth.

If they don't let me have access to preproduction or prototype units, obviously I can't get the book done for launch, but -- that'd be my ideal goal. :thumbsup:
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I always appreciate your effort!
 
Ryan, on the "face autofocus" question -- I don't think you understood what he was asking. He was asking "okay, so seeing as very little on a face might be in focus, what would AUTOFOCUS choose to make the in-focus part?" I think he understood that only the nose, or only the eyes, or only the ears might be in focus (at f/1.4). The question (AIUI) is: would autofocus be of any value in a scenario like that? Is it "smart" enough to know to focus on the eyes?

And that, I don't know the answer to.
 
by the way Barry that 5dMKii test you linked was in STILLS dynamic range am I correct? There's no way a 5dmkii has 10+ stops of DR in video mode ...

But AF100 having same DR as Canon 5dmkii does in stills is very pleasing . ..:2vrolijk_08::2vrolijk_08:
 
Homunculus said:
Dude if it's 11 stops of DR this is the most revolutionary cam ever :). It will be the affordable Red One (non MX version). And you're right original Red blew everyone away especially when Peter Jackson did his littel war teaser with it and now compared to MX footage original Red looks like DSLR crap! Crazy how times change but I will be more than happy to have a 5-6k cam that's close to even an original Red ......
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It is already 10.5 as measured on one of the most expensive, highly calibrated test charts in the industry. Again, we'll see what the final is, but that's what the chart showed.
 
Barry, have you ever tested GH13 dynamic range just curious because I don't put stock in Zacuto shootout since a lot of people said GH1 was on crap (not optimal) settings so I have no idea how accurate their findings were. What would you say GH1 DR is roughly from your experience?
 
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