AF-100 Wishlist/Suggestion Discussion Thread

[Ben_B]

I feel compelled to respond to your second point:

4 or even 5 XLR's is absolutely imperative for field capture in 5.1 (5.1 can easily be constructed from 4 channels, and 5 is even better).
Bear in mind that this camera will most certainly be used by solo operators for documentary and live performance capture.
There is no time, space or budget for secondary audio systems and an operator to man the equipment.
I for one make part of my business from shooting bands and theatrical performances, and a large part of the sales pitch is my ability to capture true surround sound with my solo rig.
Generally one takes a stereo feed from the FOH console on audio tracks 1 & 2 and a stereo surround mic goes on tracks 3 & 4.
With these four tracks as a foundation it is relatively simple to create a satisfying 5.1 mix for the client.
The same applies for field capture of 5.1 audio for documentary work.
The statement that "more than two XLR's is overkill for most people" is short-sighted and does not speak for everyone who has an interest in seeing this camera come to market.

There's a reason why I said "most people."

If I was going to be shooting bands and theatrical performances I would invest in a high quality audio deck with the inputs I needed tap that into the console, and maybe us the surround mic on camera. I don't know why you would want your audio tied to the camera. Cameras are first and foremost designed to record images, most audio features on these cameras don't come close to touching a professional audio deck, and for good reason: it's a camera, not an audio recorder. The more features you add that are tangent to the core functionality of recording images the more that core functionality is likely to suffer.

I do not feel that saying that more than two XLRs is overkill for most people is shortsighted or not speaking to everyone's interests because anyone with a serious need for sound quality is probably better off investing in the proper equipment anyway. Any on camera sound features, no matter how good, or not a substitute for a professional audio deck.

Suggesting that they incorporate better sound features is a valid suggestion, but my point that such features might be overkill is equally valid, and is an entirely reasonable point to make given that every camera Panasonic has ever made in this price range have had no more than 2 XLRs (DVX-100, HVX-200, HMC-150, HPX-170, etc) and have sold very very well.

What camera/sound setup are you using for this work currently? I am very curious to know, given that most of these cameras do only have 2 XLR jacks, and you say you do not have the budget or resources to use an audio equipment, despite the audio-centric nature of your work.

Also, I am a little bit confused, would you be using one camera as a static setup with all your sound running into it and then another camera as your mobile/variable shot camera?

 

[Paul V Doherty]

There's a reason why I said "most people."

If I was going to be shooting bands and theatrical performances I would invest in a high quality audio deck with the inputs I needed tap that into the console, and maybe us the surround mic on camera. I don't know why you would want your audio tied to the camera. Cameras are first and foremost designed to record images, most audio features on these cameras don't come close to touching a professional audio deck, and for good reason: it's a camera, not an audio recorder. The more features you add that are tangent to the core functionality of recording images the more that core functionality is likely to suffer.

I do not feel that saying that more than two XLRs is overkill for most people is shortsighted or not speaking to everyone's interests because anyone with a serious need for sound quality is probably better off investing in the proper equipment anyway. Any on camera sound features, no matter how good, or not a substitute for a professional audio deck.

Suggesting that they incorporate better sound features is a valid suggestion, but my point that such features might be overkill is equally valid, and is an entirely reasonable point to make given that every camera Panasonic has ever made in this price range have had no more than 2 XLRs (DVX-100, HVX-200, HMC-150, HPX-170, etc) and have sold very very well.

What camera/sound setup are you using for this work currently? I am very curious to know, given that most of these cameras do only have 2 XLR jacks, and you say you do not have the budget or resources to use an audio equipment, despite the audio-centric nature of your work.

Also, I am a little bit confused, would you be using one camera as a static setup with all your sound running into it and then another camera as your mobile/variable shot camera?

I currently use an XL2 for the sole reason that it can record 4 channel audio.
Yes, I rent bigger/better cameras when the client's budget allows for it.
And yes, I use my MacBook Pro-based Logic rig for 16 channels of 24/96 audio when the client's budget allows, and I shoot multi-cam.
But I also shoot for what you might call the "bottom" of the performance market: small-time bands, small theatre companies, and community theatre.
In those cases I shoot solo with my XL2 on sticks near the FOH console and the client gets a reasonable product for what they pay for.
I'm targeting the AF100 as my XL2 replacement - it will serve nicely as a stage cam with shallow DOF for multi-cam shoots, and as my 4-channel audio tripod cam with a long lens for solo shoots.
When I have a "bottom dollar" client I will only invest a certain amount of time on their shoot - that means I'm not going to mess around ingesting separate audio and video streams, sync them and post produce properly in Logic for a 5.1 mix.
I'm certainly not going to set up, test and monitor both a camera and an audio recorder when I'm tethered to the FOH console regardless.
Instead I prefer to work with camera audio only and export directly to 5.1 in Compressor and the client gets a superior product to what the competition can offer at the same price point.
I don't even know if AVCHD even supports more than 2 channels of audio.

 

[dcloud]

yep. some are weird suggestion right
but its the suggestion thread. its not like guns are pointed to the engineer's heads to do all these suggestions

to LUIS
i forgot to add the draggable spot meter on the touch screen features
just like the spot meter on the 170 or 150 except you can move it around and see the image's exposure %

 

[Isaac_Brody]

I'm not sure how many times it has to be said but make your requests and please don't try and dictate how people should or will use this camera. Don't make assumptions for everyone else. It's not your job to shoot down suggestions or try and play engineer. The best you can do is put in your requests and hope the engineers and people watching these threads find a way to include your request within the pricepoint.

 

[Ben_B]

i forgot to add the draggable spot meter on the touch screen features
just like the spot meter on the 170 or 150 except you can move it around and see the image's exposure %

Isn't that what Zebras are for? Or is the idea here that you can quickly get an idea of what's going on without having to keep changing your Zebra settings? Yeah if there's gonna be a touch screen (which I kind of doubt) not a bad feature to have I suppose.

Moveable focus-assist (zoom in) like on the GH1 and the Canon HDSLRs is a MUST.

 

[Ben_B]

I'm not sure how many times it has to be said but make your requests and please don't try and dictate how people should or will use this camera. Don't make assumptions for everyone else. It's not your job to shoot down suggestions or try and play engineer. The best you can do is put in your requests and hope the engineers and people watching these threads find a way to include your request within the pricepoint.

I was under the impression that this was the Wishlist/Suggestion Discussion Thread, not the Wishlist/Suggestion Make a Long list Where No one interacts with each other and just shuts up after a suggestion is made thread.

In making the statement that 2 XLR ports is more than enough for more post people, or the statement others have made that autofocus not be included (one that I don't agree with), we learn about each other's specific needs, workflows, and projects...and so does Panasonic. I really don't think there's anything wrong with expressing an opinion that a particular suggestion is poor. Just as people are suggesting things specific to their needs some of us have specific needs that those suggestions do not fit into. I do not need 4 XLR ports on my camera, therefore I don't want them on there. I get that we're not suppose to "play engineer" and say, well if you have to add those then the price/weight, etc, will change...but just as it's valid for someone to say: Hey Panasonic, I need 4 XLRs on this camera for my line of work, it is also valid for me to say "Hey Panasonic, I don't. 2 is fine."

 

[Rory_B]

I was under the impression that this was the Wishlist/Suggestion Discussion Thread, not the Wishlist/Suggestion Make a Long list Where No one interacts with each other and just shuts up after a suggestion is made thread.

In making the statement that 2 XLR ports is more than enough for more post people, or the statement others have made that autofocus not be included (one that I don't agree with), we learn about each other's specific needs, workflows, and projects...and so does Panasonic. I really don't think there's anything wrong with expressing an opinion that a particular suggestion is poor. Just as people are suggesting things specific to their needs some of us have specific needs that those suggestions do not fit into. I do not need 4 XLR ports on my camera, therefore I don't want them on there. I get that we're not suppose to "play engineer" and say, well if you have to add those then the price/weight, etc, will change...but just as it's valid for someone to say: Hey Panasonic, I need 4 XLRs on this camera for my line of work, it is also valid for me to say "Hey Panasonic, I don't. 2 is fine."

the problem is that you fail to consistently show people, who make suggestions, the same respect that is afforded to you when you ask for a feature. Debate is one thing. Attitude is another.

 

[Ben_B]

the problem is that you fail to consistently show people, who make suggestions, the same respect that is afforded to you when you ask for a feature. Debate is one thing. Attitude is another.

I would agree that I am inconsistent, and could probably be a little more tactful in many situations. Sorry about that.

However, I feel like discussion should continue, and I'll try to keep things as polite as possible...but discussion should continue...not list-making.

 

[Isaac_Brody]

I really don't think there's anything wrong with expressing an opinion that a particular suggestion is poor. Just as people are suggesting things specific to their needs some of us have specific needs that those suggestions do not fit into. I do not need 4 XLR ports on my camera, therefore I don't want them on there

You seem to be the only one not grasping this concept of respecting other people's opinions and needs. Ben, you seem to think they're making this camera just for you. They're not, so make your suggestions and kindly respect others and keep the attitude out of this thread.

Just as people are suggesting things specific to their needs some of us have specific needs that those suggestions do not fit into.

Let me repeat what I just said, this camera isn't being created just for your needs. So if something doesn't fit your requests tough luck, keep your opinion to yourself. I mention this because it's obvious that you are rubbing people the wrong way in this thread and starting to muddy up the pool. Last warning.

 

[John Caballero]

Ouch! I thought I was alone in this world. I am relieved I am not.

 

[Ben_B]

Let me repeat what I just said, this camera isn't being created just for your needs.

Exactly....so why have people even bother telling Panasonic what they need? It's not being made for my specific needs any more than it's being made for anyone else's specific needs.

Anyway...anyone think an internal mic would be nice? Sort of a strange omission. It doesn't have to be good, just being there would be nice. Does this have anything to do with AVCHD's limitations when it comes to audio tracks? Could it record 2 channels from an an internal mic and 2 channels from the XLRs? Not a dealbreaker, nor is it even that necessary, at least for my needs, but it's a bit of a head scratcher.

 

[Isaac_Brody]

Exactly....so why have people even bother telling Panasonic what they need? It's not being made for my specific needs any more than it's being made for anyone else's specific needs.

What's your point? From where I'm standing you just sound like a teenager who wants to argue. If you want to continue this pointless debate shoot me a PM.

Everyone else, sorry for the distraction. Back on topic.

 

[Starshine Video]

Exactly....so why have people even bother telling Panasonic what they need? It's not being made for my specific needs any more than it's being made for anyone else's specific needs.

Anyway...anyone think an internal mic would be nice? Sort of a strange omission. It doesn't have to be good, just being there would be nice. Does this have anything to do with AVCHD's limitations when it comes to audio tracks? Could it record 2 channels from an an internal mic and 2 channels from the XLRs? Not a dealbreaker, nor is it even that necessary, at least for my needs, but it's a bit of a head scratcher.

I really have no need for an on camera mic, If one is there I bet it would get used. I much prefer two system sound and so do most of the directors I have collaborated with. That is one of my favorite things about the DSLR wave, I am free to set up the camera where the camera needs to be to get the shots in the storyboard. Even if the sound department only has a 50' XLR cable. That doesn't effect me at all.

Anywho, If they do add an onboard mic then make it one like on the HF10 camera. That onboard mic is without question the best onboard i have ever heard. Not that I am a sound tech.

 

[dadoboy]

Has anybody mentioned a back focus adjustment on the mount?
That would be really make it "professional". With all the different lens adapter being used on this, it would be very handy, perhaps very necessary, to have a way to back focus a lens to correct for any slight deviations (slight deviations will mean your lens marks dont line up).

 

[Rory_B]

Has anybody mentioned a back focus adjustment on the mount?
That would be really make it "professional". With all the different lens adapter being used on this, it would be very handy, perhaps very necessary, to have a way to back focus a lens to correct for any slight deviations (slight deviations will mean your lens marks dont line up).

Forget +1 to that. I'm going with +10 for all the different lens mounts you can adapt.

 

[Rory_B]

Onboard mic is nice for scratch track. So it'd be nice for some sort of reference. But I agree there's more pressing matters at hand

 

[Robert Ruffo]

Exactly....so why have people even bother telling Panasonic what they need? It's not being made for my specific needs any more than it's being made for anyone else's specific needs.

Anyway...anyone think an internal mic would be nice? Sort of a strange omission. It doesn't have to be good, just being there would be nice. Does this have anything to do with AVCHD's limitations when it comes to audio tracks? Could it record 2 channels from an an internal mic and 2 channels from the XLRs? Not a dealbreaker, nor is it even that necessary, at least for my needs, but it's a bit of a head scratcher.

Actually, it is a camera for all our collective needs, within reason. If they hear the same needs over and over, they will listen. Jan is following this thread. A successful company listens to their customers. They can't give us an Epic with a free HD 20x lens for $8000, but within cost compromises, I think they will give us a lot.

 

[Robert Ruffo]

Speed ramping would be amazing- even if only up to 60fps at 720. Don't know if AVCCam could handle that though.

EDIT: Speed ramping up to 60fps WITH an external dial to control it in-shot.

I for one would have no use for speed ramping: just use the highest speed and ramp-up in post.

 

[Robert Ruffo]

"Targeted at the video and film production communities,"

Quote from the press release its pretty much everybody. Just watch out for the Production Police who try and tell who can and can't use this camera.

There is no production police,. People like me try to act as misinformation police trying to protect all of us from greedy people trying to sell false dreams, and we try to set high standards.

There is also "police' at the network level in terms of which cameras are permitted. These standards are established by looking at output quality, not camera price. For example the Sony Ex cams are widely accepted, whereas many other, actually slightly more expensive 1/3 CCD cams less so.

 

[Robert Ruffo]

Why is that wishful thinking? The 2/3-inch Scarlet Cinema (interchangeable lens model) is currently projected to cost less than half that. Even the kittted-up fixed-lens model is currently projected to cost $4,750. Demand more of Panasonic.

The scarlet will have less dynamic range than the Alexa. The Alexa slightly exceeds even the Epic.