Your opinion, not a fact.
AF-100 Wishlist/Suggestion Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Luis Caffesse
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Your opinion, not a fact.
p2 still leads in transfer speed of upto 1/2 gbps
Im not a p2 user nor do i advocate it, but i see the quality and precision p2 has. What i love about it is the p2 card that are used 5 yrs ago are still usable to cameras today and they will still be usable 5 yrs from now on different cameras that will come.
you may not be it's target market but it is widely used in broadcast for many years now and hasnt fallen behind at all.
i love using sd cards on the hmc150 but i would definitely use a p2 card if i was given a choice to shoot a film.
Ok, P2 was requested, though Jan already said that it would drive up the price. I think that point has been made loud and clear. Can we get back to feature requests and take the P2 vs SD discussion elsewhere? Let's get back on topic.
Rory_B
Well-known member
No need to be so rude, because you don't agree with someone's suggestions on what they'd like to see added.
Plenty of situations where an ENG style camera would work well in a digital cinema environment where you want to run'n'gun. District 9 being a perfect example.
Plenty of people make money with ENG and then do their own shorts and whatever on the side. If the camera can supplement both roles, then that saves someone from needing to have 2 cameras or rent a different camera for those other situations. And it's their wish, not yours so try having some respect.
Ben_B
Veteran
Panasonic has stated specifically what this camera is for and ENG is not it.
This is at least the third thread he's brought this up in. Panasonic has said what this camera is being designed for. If it doesn't fit his purpose then he's welcome not to buy it. Suggesting that they fundamentally alter the concept has as much place in a thread like this as me suggesting that instead of building the AF-100 they build a Toughbook. This is not an ENG camera. It is here to replace 16mm film, to be used for film schools, and to do the kinds of things people are using HDSLRs for...this is what Panasonic has said. District 9 is an example of a film that shouldn't be using this camera, instead using something like an EX1 (you know, like they did) rather than as an example of ways in which the camera or lenses should be altered.
Panasonic is making a camera that is different than the other stuff they've already made. What the poster is asking for has already been done. He already owns 2 of the cameras they already did it in! Asking them to include all of these features in one camera is no different then me asking for a bicycle that is also a car, or a DSLR that is also a DVD player.
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Supposedly pixel binning -- which the GH1 and hence the AF100 sensor purportedly use -- doesn't have the same artifact issues that line skipping suffers. Still, I'm all for oversampling at full resolution and then downscaling, but I don't think the sensor can be run at such speeds. If it were possible, it would make the camera capable of higher resolutions (4K anyone?). While single-channel HD-SDI wouldn't support it, HDMI 1.4 should.
Rory_B
Well-known member
The guy can request whatever he wants is my point. Will it be done? Most likely not, but if he wants to request a zoom rocker and a lens designed for it then all the power to him. EX-3 is interchangeable, yet you can still use a servo-zoom lens on it. What's so horrible about having the option? You're more concerned about price point than having a camera that gives you more options it seems. You're asking for SD cards over P2 when many people prefer P2. Yet nobody is being rude to you when it comes to you advocating tiny SD cards over and over.
Maybe the guy does lots of weddings where having a camera capable of DLSR shallow DOF and lowlight ability would be a god-send when coupled with a servo zoom-lens.
Asking for that functionality is nowhere near as absurd as you try to make it sound.
My point being: There is no need to constantly be sarcastic. Too much disrespect floating around these boards. People would never act this belligerent if we were all sitting in the same room talking. The internet creates an air of bravado that really isn't there in a lot of people.
Maybe the guy does lots of weddings where having a camera capable of DLSR shallow DOF and lowlight ability would be a god-send when coupled with a servo zoom-lens.
Asking for that functionality is nowhere near as absurd as you try to make it sound.
My point being: There is no need to constantly be sarcastic. Too much disrespect floating around these boards. People would never act this belligerent if we were all sitting in the same room talking. The internet creates an air of bravado that really isn't there in a lot of people.
xmephestox
Carbonite Member
The AVCHD of this camera is at least as good as XDCAM EX so that's good to know.
When the film department at our school was looking for a new camera to get they went with the EX1 over more HVXs (already have and still use em) because they actually found it keyed better (weird huh?) The theory I've heard is that the 4:2:0 color allows it to see fewer imperfections in the green screen...or something. That and the added sharpness and resolution....I still prefer the HVX though
Proper keying also deals with your noise floor. The less noise you have, the easier it is to key. Lot of studios have to even run noise reduction tools on the green to get a better key out of certain footage. EX1 keys better than hvx200 because the half inch chip advantage of the ex1 allows for a better noise floor. 5d is even better. ISO has secretly and creeping up to be the new latitude and dynamic range. If the noise floor is good enough, the camera will be incredibly successful.
It's a hard argument, but i still say the success in the af 100 is going to be it's low light ability. You can work around codecs, you can deal with it not being quite S35. But if it's not even close to being as good as a 7d in low light (and it has to be better) it's not gonna do as well as a lot of people will hope. The bar has been set already for certain things, just like how Panny set it all those years ago, and they have to meet certain requirements now or it's going to be a bust.
Ben_B
Veteran
I just feel like sending signals this mixed isn't a great idea. We begged Panasonic for an interchangeable lens digital cinema camera, and now that they're making it there are suggestions that it doesn't have enough ENG features?
Anyway, going back to the original lens suggestion you'd also want it to be parfocal...that wasn't mentioned.
I suspect such a thing will cost as least as much as the camera body and won't sell very well.
Hmmmm...I wonder if there's a way to adapt those ENG lenses that use other mounts in such a way that we get to use the serve...an external hookup for the lens control mechanism? There would be problems with vignetting, etc, but it would probably work...
Worth noting that the EX3 (JVC-100, etc) have smaller sensors which keeps costs down...developing a lens like this for m4/3 would be very, very expensive...not just for us but for Panasonic. Again, I doubt it will sell well since it's not in their target market for this camera.
DC
Cinematographiliac
Ditto! :thumbsup:
Ben_B
Veteran
It would be nice to have. So we would like a parfocal m4/3 lens developed by Panasonic Broadcast that has a large zoom range, of 9-100mm (pre crop) and a constant aperture, with autofocus, and a zoom motor with a controller rocker.
We would like this lens in order for someone to be able to do ENG, event, documentary, and wedding type work with the AF-100 digital cinema camera, as well as future m4/3 still/hybrid cameras.
This is needed by some customers who want to use this camera for a variety of different things.
That is fair. No sarcasm.
Heres the sarcasm:
Can we put a cupholder on this thing too please? I often need somewhere to put my drink when I am filming.
End sarcasm.
True, however this particular poster has two HMC-150s and has expressed interest in augmenting them with this camera, not replacing them, even if such a lens were available. So given his particular situation the demand for such a lens seems somewhat misplaced. For someone looking to do everything with this camera then yeah, it makes sense...but again Panasonic has stated what they want this camera to do, and "everything" is not it. Suggestions should be framed within the context of the announced product, suggestions for new products (such as new lenses) should probably go in their own threads.
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Hold on. So, is the same crowd that is crushing anyone suggesting a servo zoom advocating for touch-screen auto-focus? Because the last time I ran a cinema rig with auto-focus was...never. But I guess DSLR shooters know more about a typical Panaflex or ArriCam or MovieCam rig than anyone who runs those for a living?
Preston and Bartech are on virtually every professional motion picture set with FIZ control for cinema applications. FIZ standing for motorized FOCUS (still manual, btw), IRIS and ZOOM.
Preston and Bartech are on virtually every professional motion picture set with FIZ control for cinema applications. FIZ standing for motorized FOCUS (still manual, btw), IRIS and ZOOM.
Ben_B
Veteran
Autofocus is on a per lens basis. Since it's already supported in the lens there's no reason not to have a bit of software to support it in camera. As for touchscreen? Blech. No thanks. I do like the touch screen autofocus track point thing but not for this camera...really much better for stills as current auto focus is too slow to react to the changing track point for video...but oh man for stills it's great!
The sting on the initial buy was over a long long long time ago.
Im not saying anywhere dont bring this out as avchd first. SO my statements have never been a p2 vs so no need for any debate as far as Im concerned.
But as others have mentioned the p2 option / add on / upgrade would be great for someone like me who has p2 sitting on their desk already.
But for me if the flavour of the p2 is DVCPro HD only then the AVCHD at full 1080 would be enough.
What's auto focus?
Ben_B
Veteran
Would HD-SDI out to a P2 recorder work well enough for you?
The total disconnect with how industry-standard cinematography is accomplished is fantastic. But, at the same time, we're all living in a new world where guys like Rodney Charters are constantly looking for alternatives. So, we have to play nicely in the sandbox.
As we share the shovels and buckets, let's remember that suggestions from an ENG shooter are no less valid or legitimate than those from a local 600 affiliated operator.
The people interested in the feature set on the AF100 come from all backgrounds and could as likely be a card-carrying IA operator as they could be a nineteen-year-old with three k of DSLR gear shoved in the same backpack he uses to take classes at the junior college on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
As we share the shovels and buckets, let's remember that suggestions from an ENG shooter are no less valid or legitimate than those from a local 600 affiliated operator.
The people interested in the feature set on the AF100 come from all backgrounds and could as likely be a card-carrying IA operator as they could be a nineteen-year-old with three k of DSLR gear shoved in the same backpack he uses to take classes at the junior college on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
No kidding. I mean...really.
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