AF-100 Another DSLR $9,000 4:2:0 is a solution?

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Well, I've noticed that on shots that I've got spot on, on set, there's bugger all difference quality-wise between Canon dSLR footage and HVX200 footage. Obviously there's lots of differences, depth of field, aliasing, etc. but the overall perceived effect is pretty good from each.

The difference comes when I've cocked up on set. Shooting micro budget with limited crew, this is all too easy to do... and our "safe" fall back is to err on the side of underexposure, and to white balance using the camera's built in 5600K setting (so at least white balance has a consistent starting point to grade from).

My experience then is that the HVX200 footage, captured in DVCProHD, is a lot more forgiving in the grade if i need to pull everything up by a stop and correct a colour cast which was not spotted on set. The Canon footage falls apart rather more quickly. This makes sense- the Canon footage is more heavily compressed, it has thrown away more of the supposedly non-visually important information which is what one is trying to get back in the grade by boosting everything to compensate for a stop of underexposure.

Ironically, if you are a big budget operation you've probably got a better chance of capturing the right 8 bits of information from the cameras on set than a micro budget operation like us. We're more likely to be shooting something a bit more contrasty than we can really cope with but not have enough lighting with us to compensate properly, for example. So ironically the big boys can probably happily chug along with these heavy perceptual compression codecs and concentrate on getting it right on set.

I'm definitely interested in the external recorders because I suspect they'll give me a bit of an insurance policy against shooting day cock-ups. So rather than a perceived increase in quality, for me the use of external recorders would be there to cover my backside in case I've underexposed by a stop or curse and realise that I really needed to balance minus green on a particular scene.

I'm going to play with my AF100 to breaking point when it arrives, and see how badly wrong I can get it and still rescue the skin tones (which is the primary think I care about) in the grade. If it gives me the sort of latitude that the DVCProHD footage did, I'll be very happy (and a bit surprised). What I suspect may happen is that the footage will be fine, but will fall apart rather quickly if you get out of the butter zone... and that's probably where an external recorder would really come into its own. If the Ninja works as promised, for the price it is almost worth having just as a hardware converter and instant backup device so that even if I get a dead card I'll have a backup on SDD or hard drive, already in ProRes to feed straight into my FCP editing chain without log and transfer. That it might stand up better in the grade is an added bonus.

Cheers, Hywel
 
Is the 4:2:0 footage going to mix in well with the 4:2:2 during the grade? I've seen the limitations of h.264 4:2:0. I'm making a fighting film and would like the variable frame rates for the fight sequences, over or undercranked.

I grade the whole film in Color Finesse shot by shot.
 
Its going to depend on how much you push the grade. Certainly you can do an ordinary CC on 4.2.0 and it will look indistinguishable from 4.2.2. I dual record and use my 4.2.0 clip as a back up for my 4.2.2 footage.
 
Does encoding the 4:2:0 to something like DNhHD or Prores with 4:2:2 let you push it that much further? Does the color resolution actually improve? or does working on it in a 16 bit RGB environment like After Effects make that step unnescessary?
 
Well, you can't actually improve something by showing it into a less compressed format- there's just no way to get back that information you've lost.

It is worth transcoding to something else so you don't compress it heavily again (throwing away yet more information). So I always transcode the dSLR footage to ProRes422 because it makes it quicker to edit but also makes sure that I don't make any of the existing problems any worse with re-quantising or re-compressing the footage when I grade it. If you're working on it purely in high bit depth RGB like in After Effects there's no point - just do the conversion once, on import to After Effects, get the best out of it there and then do everything in the high bit depth colour space.

You can "fake" adding some extra information by adding a teeny bit of noise before applying say the diffusion effect in Magic Bullet Looks, or doing a median filter on the green channel before pulling a key from a green screen. It isn't a real improvement, it is a fake, but it can mask some of the more unpleasant limitations of the original footage. dSLR footage recorded with line skipping has this sort of fakery right there in the original footage by the way which is why although it *looks* detailed it really isn't, and you get hideous aliasing and Moire and the actual resolution of the camera is significantly worse than HD.

Cheers, Hywel.
 
Ok. I think I'm gonna go with the Nanoflash for the AF101. Any ideas how I can attach it securely to the camera???

Thanks
 
Here are 3 photos of how I mount the NanoFlash, on different cameras. As soon as I have my AF100 I will adapt these mounts to this cam as well.

There are interchangeable arms for facing the NanoFlash to the rear or to the left.
NanoCanon.jpg


This shows the setup I make for CBS in NY, they also power the Wireless mics from the same small batt as the NF
NanoEX1.jpg


This is an EX3 with a shoulder brace and IDX battery to power both the camera and NanoFlash
NanoEX3.jpg


I also do custom setups for 3D cameras.
Nano3D.jpg
 
TBH that looks like a real pain in the ass... Wouldn't want to have that added to an AF101 in the situation I film in, it would be a nightmare... F**k...

Jan.. PLEASE, 4:2:2 50mbs to on-board card...

:-(

I really don't know what to do... Stress...!
 
TBH that looks like a real pain in the ass... Wouldn't want to have that added to an AF101 in the situation I film in, it would be a nightmare... F**k...

Jan.. PLEASE, 4:2:2 50mbs to on-board card...

:-(

I really don't know what to do... Stress...!


Don't buy it then… Probably not the camera for you.
 
TBH that looks like a real pain in the ass... Wouldn't want to have that added to an AF101 in the situation I film in, it would be a nightmare... F**k...

Jan.. PLEASE, 4:2:2 50mbs to on-board card...

I have my nano on a wing attached to a base plate similar to Olof's. If you're worried about hand held it actually balances better, shifts the weight back over the shoulder, and the Nano starts when I push the camera start button. The Letus is more of a problem than the Nano. Frankly I don't even notice the nano is there.

Ex1NanoLetusR34S.jpg

I agree, if that method of usage is too difficult for you get another camera because the codec in the AF100 isn't changing and Jan is tired of hearing it.
 
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After doing some extreme VFX on 7D footage this last two weeks I will GLADLY hang something off my AF100 to avoid 4:2:0 for those shots again. Keying out skies behind trees is a nightmare with all the chroma contamination at contrast boundaries.

The end of this month isn't getting here quick enough :)
 
I have my nano on a wing attached to a base plate similar to Olof's. If you're worried about hand held it actually balances better, shifts the weight back over the shoulder, and the Nano starts when I push the camera start button. The Letus is more of a problem than the Nano. Frankly I don't even notice the nano is there.

View attachment 26305

I agree, if that method of usage is too difficult for you get another camera because the codec in the AF100 isn't changing and Jan is tired of hearing it.

Yes, well Jan is paid to listen to people's panasonic woes... So no problem there.

Can you post a few more pics from different angles please, so I can get a better look and see if this is workable... Thanks.
 
Yes, well Jan is paid to listen to people's panasonic woes... So no problem there.

Can you post a few more pics from different angles please, so I can get a better look and see if this is workable... Thanks.

I think Jan went out on a limb to give us what people were asking for, including that low price point. Of course some people are never satisfied and will ask for things from $29,000 cameras at that $4,750 price. She has taken a lot of grief about it and probably feels sick about the complaints. Especially after Panasonic made the misstep about allowing the early run and gun clips.

Bug her too much and unrealistically, and I doubt she'll be much inclined to listen again. Although when the camera is out and good clips come in the enthusiasm should swing back around.

As you can see from the shots there is plenty of room for cables and adjustments. And if I slide the Nano out of the cold shoe the whole thing still fits in my Kata bag without removing the base plate or wing.

Ex1NanoLetusRtS.jpgEx1NanoLetusLtS.jpgNanoArmII TopS.jpgNanoArmII RtS.jpgNanoArmRearS.jpg
 

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I think I can come up with a really compact NanoFlash mount on the AF100. It has both a replaceable top handle and side handle.

So depending on your use of the camera I will have different solutions.

More Photos:
42.jpg


SliderFlag.jpg


This one shows how compact the rig is on an EX1
65.jpg
 
i love the fact that even if you move up to the sony f3, you still wont get 4:2:2 despite the price bump... you still need a nano for it :P
The F3 is far less expensive than any of the Sony cameras with 4:2:2.

I think the PDW700 is the least expensive model with XDCAM 4:2:2, and it's over $30,000.
 
I think Jan...

Thanks for the pics, appreciate it.....

And not all, Canon released a 4:2:2 50mbs "VIDEO CAMERA (XF305)" back in August for not much more than the price of 101. 1/3" maybe, but still 4:2:2 50mbs... I need a camera NOW as work has to be done, but have a feeling as soon as I get the AF101, Canon will combine their DSLR's with XF305 and have some amazing low price broadcast quality kit. Their silence is painful.....
 
Thanks for the pics, appreciate it.....

And not all, Canon released a 4:2:2 50mbs "VIDEO CAMERA (XF305)" back in August for not much more than the price of 101. 1/3" maybe, but still 4:2:2 50mbs... I need a camera NOW as work has to be done, but have a feeling as soon as I get the AF101, Canon will combine their DSLR's with XF305 and have some amazing low price broadcast quality kit. Their silence is painful.....
this is just my opinion and you dont have to take it seriously
i dont think canon will release one in 2011. and if ever they do, it will be far more expensive. I bet it will be awesome, but expensive.
 
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