AF-100 Another DSLR $9,000 4:2:0 is a solution?

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I too am very excited about the AF100/101 and have been checking out every piece of info and posted videos.

I'm in the market to update my gear for news work just don't know which way to jump, I have a JVC Pro ENG camera, a 5DII and a 7D but I keep using the 5DII because I can shoot stills/video or get great stills off video despite the work arounds for audio/focus, the vision just looks so nice.

Re the Panny AF100, the pro video features look great, but the part that deflates the balloon just a bit for me are these.

Sensor size/light gathering while better than a 3 chip video camera is still small compared to 5DII
Low light capability not on par with mainstream ENG cameras

I would love to use this camera for news work but frankly the low light probably would not cut it. A Sony ENG camera has a gain of about 40db meaning it's minimum illumination is about 1/10th of a lux but this Panny seems to be just an Indie filmmakers tool.

I know that's what it's aimed at but I was hoping for more.

In fact the GH2 looks very very interesting, with it's uncompressed HDMI out, reduced aliasing and moire, AF in video mode, manual exposure and audio, the ability to shoot high res stills while shooting video etc etc looks great for the price. Plus it shoots 60i/50i (excellent for news work) or 24p and a rumored 25p for the euro model (thanks to Phillip Bloom) It may have poor low light in extreme jobs but might still be fun.

In the present market, the 5DII, the 1DIV while a pain with the work arounds have excellent low light capabilities and much larger sensors.

I would hate to get an AF100 only to be trumped by the 5DIII next year, or for that matter update a new Sony ENG camera for about $30k with lens to find out there was something better and a fraction of the price.

I think I'll will wait until I can get my hands on an AF100 and try it out and before that watch the reviews as the production versions are shipped and reviewed.

To me though, if Canon release a 5DIII with a rumored 102,000 ISO, 32 megapixel stills, resolve the rolling shutter and aliasing problems, do more about the sound and have clean HDMI or a better recording codec, they could still stay king because of that beautiful full frame sensor.

And the expected 1DSIV may be a good all round work horse too.

The revolution is on in earnest and it keeps changing with major enhancements happening now less than 12 months apart.

I think film makers and video news gatherers have never had it so good.
 
Aliasing is not better on the GH2 compared to the GH1 from what I have seen (and it makes sense since the OLPF is designed for the full resolution of stills mode) and certainly NO WHERE near as nice as what I've seen of the AF100 yet. Now, coming from the 5D/7D, yes, the moire is MUCH better on the GH1/GH2 as I shoot a 7D and can tell you, the rainbow is horrible when it happens.

I also don't see Canon resolving the aliasing/moire issues on their cameras anytime soon. They didn't do it with the 7D, t2i or 60D, nor did they make them any better. I would be looking to Canon's answer to the AF100 or Sony's recently announced NXCAM which doesn't have a full name yet (or the F3).
 
grimepoch said:
I also don't see Canon resolving the aliasing/moire issues on their cameras anytime soon. They didn't do it with the 7D, t2i or 60D, nor did they make them any better. I would be looking to Canon's answer to the AF100 or Sony's recently announced NXCAM which doesn't have a full name yet (or the F3).
Click to expand...

Canon has been quite silent for some time and I am sure there is a very good reason. They are clearly preparing the next generation of DSLR's. They sell video cameras in the tens of thousands, but they sell cameras in the millions. There has been so much demand because of the DSLR video thing that they actually invested in a factory to double their production. Even if many people don't need or want video, the added polyvalence has created a perfect storm of marketing visibility. They are well aware of the issues, people have made coordinated campaigns to make their wishes known. If Canon drops the ball on this they will have lost one of the most major marketing opportunities in their product line in the last 30 years and I think, in true Japanese corporate fashion they are being very cautious and methodical about not doing that.
I truly think that mid 2011 will be an astounding moment in terms of competition among the various manufacturers for the video market.
 
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Can someone please recommend a good tough but lightweight tripod for the AF101, that will be traveling a lot too. Would also like to put a Canon XF305 on it.

Also - Any recommendation for some good lights for traveling with - not too big or bulky but have good power considering...

I've always used Manfrotto before, but want something lighter...

Also- do you think the steadicam merlin will work with the AF100? Or another suitable steadicam that is compact.

many thanks
 
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Nick Navaro said:
Can someone please recommend a good tough but lightweight tripod for the AF101, that will be traveling a lot too. Would also like to put a Canon XF305 on it.

Also - Any recommendation for some good lights for traveling with - not too big or bulky but have good power considering...

I've always used Manfrotto before, but want something lighter...

Also- do you think the steadicam merlin will work with the AF100? Or another suitable steadicam that is compact.

many thanks
Click to expand...

Vinten Vision 5AS with carbon fiber legs. With the perfect balance feature it will be ideal for the AF whether you have a heavy telephoto lens or lightweight prime on the front. This still might be too heavy for you though.
 
You should specify price range because there is some beautiful tripods that are very expensive. As for lights, what are you going to be lighting? Interviews will require less lighting than trying to light a scene with a few people.

Nick Navaro said:
Can someone please recommend a good tough but lightweight tripod for the AF101, that will be traveling a lot too. Would also like to put a Canon XF305 on it.

Also - Any recommendation for some good lights for traveling with - not too big or bulky but have good power considering...

I've always used Manfrotto before, but want something lighter...

Also- do you think the steadicam merlin will work with the AF100? Or another suitable steadicam that is compact.

many thanks
Click to expand...
 
The Steadicam Merlin is a toy. I've used it; it feels like Tiffen execs sat down and said, "Hey let's make a kids meal version of our product, as cheaply as possible, price it just under a grand and make a killing!" It works fine, it just feels flimsy, and if there's any wind whatsoever, shooting is impossible.

Instead, consider the Camera Motion Research Blackbird. The gimbal in exactly the right place, so you don't suffer unbelievable fatigue as with the Glidecam. The camera stage has precise fine tuning in both X and Y axis so you can immediately dial in the settings for a given lens and be balanced in seconds instead of 10-15 minutes. Compared to its competitors, the Blackbird features greatly improved moment of inertia ratios: I don't understand the math but I know the Blackbird doesn't bounce and roll nearly as much as the other two do. (A longtime Glidecam owner picked up my Blackbird on set the other day and said "God, this is so much better" after 30 seconds). Everything about the Blackbird is just lovingly designed by an engineer who knew exactly what he was doing.

Unfortunately he's not the best at modern website design, but don't let that throw you off. It is the best product I've ever purchased in this industry, hands down, and Rich is very, very helpful and quick to respond. I can tell you I used an EX-1 on it all day with very little fatigue. It's fully upgradeable with a proper Pilot vest if you want to look cool / have more support, but it's pretty unnecessary.

Oh, and you can dial in a little friction to ease out operator bumps and roll/tilt caused by wind, sudden start/stop etc. Everything about it has been thought out to the nth degree.
 
Ryan that's really helpful. Thanks!

Bgundu, I'd say about £300 - £600 / $450 - $900... And the lighting will just be an interview, not a big scene, but in a room with poor light (not dark)...

I was looking at this but can't really tell how big it is. And would be good if it fitted on a really lightweight stand... Everything has to be lightweight due to traveling alone most times...

http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/view_item_cat.php?catalogue_number=datavision_led-600
 
I'll second the blackbird as well. We have three of them and I've met Rich personally, CMR is in the town I live in. They put a lot of time and research into it, I got to see a bunch of the prototypes as well, and, their extensive collection of other rigs that they tested.

The biggest thing is adjustability because when you swap a lens out, the center of gravity changes. I am looking forward to trying my AF100 on it.
 
Frank@Coffs said:
I too am very excited about the AF100/101 and have been checking out every piece of info and posted videos.

I'm in the market to update my gear for news work just don't know which way to jump, I have a JVC Pro ENG camera, a 5DII and a 7D but I keep using the 5DII because I can shoot stills/video or get great stills off video despite the work arounds for audio/focus, the vision just looks so nice.

Re the Panny AF100, the pro video features look great, but the part that deflates the balloon just a bit for me are these.

Sensor size/light gathering while better than a 3 chip video camera is still small compared to 5DII
Low light capability not on par with mainstream ENG cameras

I would love to use this camera for news work but frankly the low light probably would not cut it. A Sony ENG camera has a gain of about 40db meaning it's minimum illumination is about 1/10th of a lux but this Panny seems to be just an Indie filmmakers tool.

I know that's what it's aimed at but I was hoping for more.

In fact the GH2 looks very very interesting, with it's uncompressed HDMI out, reduced aliasing and moire, AF in video mode, manual exposure and audio, the ability to shoot high res stills while shooting video etc etc looks great for the price. Plus it shoots 60i/50i (excellent for news work) or 24p and a rumored 25p for the euro model (thanks to Phillip Bloom) It may have poor low light in extreme jobs but might still be fun.

In the present market, the 5DII, the 1DIV while a pain with the work arounds have excellent low light capabilities and much larger sensors.

I would hate to get an AF100 only to be trumped by the 5DIII next year, or for that matter update a new Sony ENG camera for about $30k with lens to find out there was something better and a fraction of the price.

I think I'll will wait until I can get my hands on an AF100 and try it out and before that watch the reviews as the production versions are shipped and reviewed.

To me though, if Canon release a 5DIII with a rumored 102,000 ISO, 32 megapixel stills, resolve the rolling shutter and aliasing problems, do more about the sound and have clean HDMI or a better recording codec, they could still stay king because of that beautiful full frame sensor.

And the expected 1DSIV may be a good all round work horse too.

The revolution is on in earnest and it keeps changing with major enhancements happening now less than 12 months apart.

I think film makers and video news gatherers have never had it so good.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Just because a camera has 40db of gain or 100 or 100K iso does not mean your image will look good. You need to look at that sensor on the chip to determine how much light it will get. Personally if I had the money for an Af100 I would buy it as it is basically a DSLR without all of the shortcomings!
 
ALSO - What batteries does the AF101 take?? I can't find any... And recommendation for a good mini tripod to put it on... I need to do a cost sheet to send to investors today..!! Thanks!

Ahhh.... The Yanks are on holiday today aren't they...
 
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Nick Navaro said:
ALSO - What batteries does the AF101 take?? I can't find any... And recommendation for a good mini tripod to put it on... I need to do a cost sheet to send to investors today..!! Thanks!

Ahhh.... The Yanks are on holiday today aren't they...
Click to expand...
It takes AVCCAM/HMC batteries. Any battery that's compatible with the HMC150/HMC80/HMC40, will also work on the AF100.
 
Nick Navaro said:
I was looking at this but can't really tell how big it is. And would be good if it fitted on a really lightweight stand... Everything has to be lightweight due to traveling alone most times...

http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/view_item_cat.php?catalogue_number=datavision_led-600
Click to expand...

From the specs page on the light at creativevideo:
Width:410mm Height:410mm Depth:52mm Weight:1760g (without batteries)

Batteries- $33 US, free shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.com/z607-Battery-Pa...685?pt=Batteries_Chargers&hash=item3f05207085
 
I just got to the end of thread. What a day of reading, in between Thanksgiving dinner and football. I have a couple of questions.

I'm looking at the aja ki pro mini as a 4:2:2 solution for the AF 100. Will it still record the under and over cranked footage in a 60i wrapper or am I stuck with the internal recording for these fps?
 
I understand that in over crank on the AF100 nothing is put out on HD-SDI or HDMI. No video at all. Your only choice in over crank is internal 420 recording.

Jan made this very clear in the Boston presentation. Unless I misunderstood, but I don't think I did.
 
I believe you can record 720p at up to 60fps to the external recorder.

WhiteMonkey said:
I just got to the end of thread. What a day of reading, in between Thanksgiving dinner and football. I have a couple of questions.

I'm looking at the aja ki pro mini as a 4:2:2 solution for the AF 100. Will it still record the under and over cranked footage in a 60i wrapper or am I stuck with the internal recording for these fps?
Click to expand...
 
olof said:
I understand that in over crank on the AF100 nothing is put out on HD-SDI or HDMI. No video at all. Your only choice in over crank is internal 420 recording.

Jan made this very clear in the Boston presentation. Unless I misunderstood, but I don't think I did.
Click to expand...
Not true. The HD-SDI is always outputting a 1080/60i signal (unless, of course, you've put the SDI in 1080/24PsF mode). When in variable frame rate mode, it will always output as many frames as it possibly can, using pulldown to fit it within 60i. When shooting 30p, it outputs 30p-in-60i with 2-2 pulldown. When shooting 24p, it outputs 24p-in-60i with 3-2 pulldown. If you go over 30fps, it will output frames as fields; if you put it in 1080/60p it will output each frame as a single field.

You will get monitoring. It wouldn't be worth capturing in an external recorder because it would be half vertical res, since it's a field, but it's not like the SDI or HDMI ports go dead, they don't.

And before anybody complains about "crippling" or "limiting", please understand that HD-SDI, by design and by very definition, cannot output more than 1080/60i. It cannot output 1080/60p. No HD-SDI port can do it. HD-SDI is designed to handle 1.5gbps of data, and a 1080/60i signal uses up about 1.45gbps. If you went to 1080/60p, you'd need twice that, or about 2.9gbps. It cannot be done on HD-SDI.
 
So what would the big difference be if I filmed and edited a piece and it had

1080p 25fps 4:2:2 50mbs and
720p 50fps 4:2:0 24mbs shots in it

then I edited in FCP and bounced down at 1080 50mbs mpeg2 and sent it to a TV broadcast station. Would there be a massive noticeable difference on say a 30" plasma... ?
 
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