C100: Advice
- Thread starter Carroll B
- Start date
White Balance is one area on the C100 that I struggle with the most. It doesn't help that the built-in LCD has a blue cast, so you can't use it to judge color temperature. As far as post options go, I've found colorista II to be best at quickly correcting white balance, but it takes ages to render.
MattDavis
Well-known member
+1 on the WB issues AND +1 on the Built-in LCD.
I'm going to be controversial here: I really like WDR for when you can't use C-Log.
WDR is like CineGamma 3 (or thereabouts) for PMW-EX1/3 cameras. You need to make a copy of it to take out the sharpening if you can do some post work. It doesn't like being overexposed. But it's very robust.
There have been recent reports about WDR doing strange things under mixed lighting. These are reports that have confused me because I regularly use WDR under VERY mixed lighting conditions (interviews at expos and conventions) and have had great results. However, I don't touch the matrix. I just make a copy of WDR and reduce the sharpness settings and diddle with Noise Reduction. That's pretty much it.
As far as WB goes, I'm now using a Ninja Blade which helps with that bloody screen. I also now have a big flop out lastolite grey/white card, as you need to fill the screen when setting white. Grumble, grumble, Sony does this right...
I'm going to be controversial here: I really like WDR for when you can't use C-Log.
WDR is like CineGamma 3 (or thereabouts) for PMW-EX1/3 cameras. You need to make a copy of it to take out the sharpening if you can do some post work. It doesn't like being overexposed. But it's very robust.
There have been recent reports about WDR doing strange things under mixed lighting. These are reports that have confused me because I regularly use WDR under VERY mixed lighting conditions (interviews at expos and conventions) and have had great results. However, I don't touch the matrix. I just make a copy of WDR and reduce the sharpness settings and diddle with Noise Reduction. That's pretty much it.
As far as WB goes, I'm now using a Ninja Blade which helps with that bloody screen. I also now have a big flop out lastolite grey/white card, as you need to fill the screen when setting white. Grumble, grumble, Sony does this right...
greenheron
Well-known member
I have found that I rarely "custom white balance" with the Canon C100/300 cameras anymore. Unless it is an unusual situation. Just dialing in the color temp gets me close and I can always come back and match. With a custom balance the Canons are just too finicky and touchy with white balance. Also easier to match multiple cameras.
I do agree with Matt that most of the time I can use WDR and get the white balance close and then a little tweek in post for color, exposure, contrast finishes it for delivery.
I do agree with Matt that most of the time I can use WDR and get the white balance close and then a little tweek in post for color, exposure, contrast finishes it for delivery.
nedcam
Well-known member
Hi Carroll,
You say "local beauty pageant" which I assume means a modest venue? Have you seen the space yet?
For years I used to shoot an annual bridal fashion expo where top models in white (ugh) dresses would be under changing lights coming and going at me (Fast!) on a runway. When I am in this situation I get there early or call a few days before to find out who is in charge of lighting. I ask them what will be the MAIN lighting, if there is a "follow spot", etc. Indoors at a classy venue there will be a follow spot and it may be DAYLIGHT! Also known as an arc light but those are the bigger venues. So ask if they are tungsten or daylight. A small AV outfit, the kind that does bar mitzvahs, etc. may not even know the term "tungsten", they are often DJ types that also set up lights. Sometimes if the show is for a younger audience it is in a hotel, conference center, mall etc. in an atrium like environment where daylight will be mixed in and that would be a nightmare.
It would be best if you could see a previous show shot there, maybe they'll have it on YouTube, etc. Pageants tend to be a regular event so they probably have previous videos I'd reckon.
So here's the important point: All you care about is flesh tones. The viewer of the final video will have no idea as to the color of the garments but everyone knows what a Caucasian should look like, so I will balance for what I believe is the main color temperature and if the Lighting Director fades up colored gelled overhead lights, so be it, nothing I can do. Once you determine how you want to white balance, and you should do that before the audience starts to take their seats, you stay with that balance as long as your flesh tones will be correct. The danger is if you mess that up the faces will be blue if too much daylight comes in and orange if too much tungsten is added to your incorrect balance, so go for the main light.
ALSO: With the C100, unlike any other camera I have had, the manual insists when doing your white balance the ENTIRE frame is filled with the white card, whereas in the past the middle 1/3 would suffice, so fill the frame with your white card while standing on the stage or runway and also black balance.
I feel the bigger problem you have, and why I wouldn't use my C100 for this, is that you can't roll exposure easily if the lights increase and decrease. Also, if there is a traditional runway you need to zoom and rack focus constantly, so I would use my ENG style camera. You will have your hands full racking focus and zooming because if you are just one camera you'll probably be at the end of the runway. If you do go with the C100 perhaps have one or two other cameras as alternate angles to cut away to.
I'm not a post guy but this may be a candidate for C-log so the editor will have the most options in post, however you have to find out who is editing and communicate this plan with them. If they just expect to slap a fade in, fade out, and titles then go Wide DR. But beware of the constant focusing and racking of exposure when doing a pageant/fashion show. WIth this, focus and exposure are what you need to nail right on or you will greatly disappoint some parents.
In Sum: Even though I have been at this since forever, even a local beauty pageant of 8 year olds, if they are coming and going quickly at me and I am at the end of a runway, and lighting is changing plus I am constantly zooming, racking exposure and following focus, I wouldn't use my C100.
My two cents!
You say "local beauty pageant" which I assume means a modest venue? Have you seen the space yet?
For years I used to shoot an annual bridal fashion expo where top models in white (ugh) dresses would be under changing lights coming and going at me (Fast!) on a runway. When I am in this situation I get there early or call a few days before to find out who is in charge of lighting. I ask them what will be the MAIN lighting, if there is a "follow spot", etc. Indoors at a classy venue there will be a follow spot and it may be DAYLIGHT! Also known as an arc light but those are the bigger venues. So ask if they are tungsten or daylight. A small AV outfit, the kind that does bar mitzvahs, etc. may not even know the term "tungsten", they are often DJ types that also set up lights. Sometimes if the show is for a younger audience it is in a hotel, conference center, mall etc. in an atrium like environment where daylight will be mixed in and that would be a nightmare.
It would be best if you could see a previous show shot there, maybe they'll have it on YouTube, etc. Pageants tend to be a regular event so they probably have previous videos I'd reckon.
So here's the important point: All you care about is flesh tones. The viewer of the final video will have no idea as to the color of the garments but everyone knows what a Caucasian should look like, so I will balance for what I believe is the main color temperature and if the Lighting Director fades up colored gelled overhead lights, so be it, nothing I can do. Once you determine how you want to white balance, and you should do that before the audience starts to take their seats, you stay with that balance as long as your flesh tones will be correct. The danger is if you mess that up the faces will be blue if too much daylight comes in and orange if too much tungsten is added to your incorrect balance, so go for the main light.
ALSO: With the C100, unlike any other camera I have had, the manual insists when doing your white balance the ENTIRE frame is filled with the white card, whereas in the past the middle 1/3 would suffice, so fill the frame with your white card while standing on the stage or runway and also black balance.
I feel the bigger problem you have, and why I wouldn't use my C100 for this, is that you can't roll exposure easily if the lights increase and decrease. Also, if there is a traditional runway you need to zoom and rack focus constantly, so I would use my ENG style camera. You will have your hands full racking focus and zooming because if you are just one camera you'll probably be at the end of the runway. If you do go with the C100 perhaps have one or two other cameras as alternate angles to cut away to.
I'm not a post guy but this may be a candidate for C-log so the editor will have the most options in post, however you have to find out who is editing and communicate this plan with them. If they just expect to slap a fade in, fade out, and titles then go Wide DR. But beware of the constant focusing and racking of exposure when doing a pageant/fashion show. WIth this, focus and exposure are what you need to nail right on or you will greatly disappoint some parents.
In Sum: Even though I have been at this since forever, even a local beauty pageant of 8 year olds, if they are coming and going quickly at me and I am at the end of a runway, and lighting is changing plus I am constantly zooming, racking exposure and following focus, I wouldn't use my C100.
My two cents!
Last edited:
All,
Thanks for taking the time to respond, this is a great forum.
Ned, I should have posted the question sooner. I shot the video that night and had not seen the location. Everything was black, the floor and the walls so you can imagine what happened when some of the ladies came out it white dresses with bright lights. The only good thing about it was the footage was for personal use. I was getting paid to be the photographer not a videographer. You are right, without the c100 having auto focus there was no way form me to keep up with everything changing. Since i was not working as a videographer I used the camera basically as a camcorder and I think I will be able to salvage a few clips.
Thanks again for responding.
Carroll
Thanks for taking the time to respond, this is a great forum.
Ned, I should have posted the question sooner. I shot the video that night and had not seen the location. Everything was black, the floor and the walls so you can imagine what happened when some of the ladies came out it white dresses with bright lights. The only good thing about it was the footage was for personal use. I was getting paid to be the photographer not a videographer. You are right, without the c100 having auto focus there was no way form me to keep up with everything changing. Since i was not working as a videographer I used the camera basically as a camcorder and I think I will be able to salvage a few clips.
Thanks again for responding.
Carroll