Advice Needed RE: stereo recording setup

J Davis

J Davis

Veteran
Hi dvxuser, I'm shooting an ad with high performance motorcycle engines and I need to
be able to cover the situation where the client wants stereo recordings of engines starting up and revving.

Currently I have mono recording with
rode NTG2 -> sound devices MM1 -> H4 (xlr line in)

Should I rent a mixpre and another ntg2? If so how far apart should they be?

Or should I rent a stereo mic?

urgent advice needed, thankx!
 
Why not the stereo mics built into the H4?

Sure, they're not the best mics in the world, but for stereo sound beds and FX they're quite useful.
 
Did the client specifically request stereo recordings? Mono should do just as well.

A suggestion - if I remember correctly, the H4n can record four (4) channels simultaneously. You could record the bike relatively close up with the mic and the ambience with the onboard mics. I would suggest a different mic that can handle high SPL levels.

You might want to read this article, it's about recording cars, but basics remain the same.

Rob Nokes Special: Guide to Recording Cars

http://designingsound.noisepages.com/2010/08/rob-nokes-special-guide-to-recording-cars/
 
Hi gang, tx for fast replys. Yes its zoom h4 not h4n. Use h4 mics once in a vocal test about a year ago
and never touched them again because of hiss but maybe it might be ok? Its such a loud rough sound.
Ad is broadcast spot so I want to deliver stereo recoding even if client has not requested it.
 
J Davis said:
Hi gang, tx for fast replys. Yes its zoom h4 not h4n. Use h4 mics once in a vocal test about a year ago
and never touched them again because of hiss but maybe it might be ok? Its such a loud rough sound.
Ad is broadcast spot so I want to deliver stereo recoding even if client has not requested it.
Click to expand...


For a loud engine, you'll need to pull the gain pretty far back to avoid distortion. Self noise floor shouldn't be a problem.

But as Bob pointed out, there's not really a need for stereo here... especially if the client hasn't specifically requested/required it. For FX and Foley, mono is much more typical. Stereo in the final mix is filled out with ambient sound beds and music.
 
Hey man, so u think the zoom can handle it? I was worried it would clip.
The engine of the motorbike is the subject of the ad, there will be a good portion of the ad duration where engine audio is all we hear. Warning signs go off in my head when I think about delivering mono.
 
no lawn mower, no lawn, no trees just lots of NYC concrete and small apartments

C2V said:
... you'll need to pull the gain pretty far back to avoid distortion. Self noise floor shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...

I'll have to take your word for it. Tx for all yer help
 
If you do end up going stereo an M/S rig is going to work a lot better/quicker for you. (aside from a zoom or other type recorder that has a built in X/Y array)

Plus at any time if post wants to only use a mono signal they can just use the "mid" mic.
 
Mid/Side.
This will explain it better than I would.
http://www.wikirecording.org/Mid-Side_Microphone_Technique

If you use 2 "boom" (small condensers) style mics
you can fit them into 1 windshield/blimp for very quick stereo effects/ambient gathering.

You basicly put 1 cardioid and 1 figure 8 patterned mic next to each other.
You then take the figure 8 mic and split it out to 2 channels.
You then take one of those channels and flip the phase.
You then pan 1 side of the figure 8 hard left and the other side of the figure 8 hard right
which then creates your stereo image.

A number of field mixers have built in matrix's to do that for you.
 
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Just to add to the general noise...

We would record in stereo with either a pair of cardioids or the M/S. Personally I'm not a big fan of M/S but it's more to do with the inconvenience factor for post. You can with little difficulty convert X/Y to M/S and visa versa so it doesn't really make much difference what you go with.

If we were recording the bike and the spot has anything to do with the engine I would also "cover" the bike. That is I would record everything you can that make noise on it (with the engine off) and also get some static revs etc and some close ups off the exhaust (should use a dynamic mic and not in a direct line or you'll melt the mic). If I could I would also mount some mics on the bike and strap a recorder to the rider so you can get some close engine sounds while it drives around.

Also remember that it's engine speed and strain that convey "speed". Having the bike blow by you at 80 will be ov very little use in post. Get it going by at high RPM but only around 30 MPH and pan withy the pass so you can stretch it out. The camera is going to effectively do the same thing so you will come out much closer to a match.. And it's much easier to speed things up (and keep them sounding good) than slow down, in post.

You could also record in mono and pan in post and for the by's a shotgun could work OK. Why I would go with a cardioid and stereo is that you will tend to get a bigger richer sound. Shot guns tend to be thin and are very focused so if it's pointing at the engine your not getting the exhaust and visa versa. With a big engine sound you want both, so wider mics and a pair of them give you "more bike". As a general rule.
 
Don't forget the spot mic on the tailpipe (to the side, not in the turbulence) for the bass octave.
 
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