Advantage of an Hpx-500 vs Dslr Camera?

Bassman2003 said:
Thanks for the link about the picture styles, but I am trying to figure out this fit for a video workflow. I shoot RAW with my still work and I have custom profiles for still processing in Adobe Lightroom, so I am familiar with the process. But the link you sent seems like it only applies to RAW processing in the Canon software in an RGB color space (computer monitor). How would you go about setting the camera up for YUV? Maybe importing the adjusted image into an NLE then re-adjusting over and over?

Thanks
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No, no, how picture styles work is you create a .pf2 file from a raw image you adjusted in PSE, load this file onto your camera via EOS utility, and then it basically does what scene files do on the HPX or any camcorder, which is adjust the image parameters you defined as the image is captured.
Normally, these are ignored for RAW capture, and only affect jpegs, however, to put it bluntly, that's exactly what video is - a sequence of 1920x1080 jpegs. When you set a picture style, the effects are baked into your footage before compression takes place, so you can adjust the look of the image to some degree in-camera, and then adjust it even further in post. This is why setting up things like white balance and scene files are so important as part of the capture process with any video camera, you could always fix the look in post given a robust codec, but then you'll waste all your headroom instead of concentrating on the grading/look.
 
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Hello, I am comfortable with how they work, what I was wondering is how do you adjust the colors to be true in a YUV colorspace? If you use your computer monitor to adjust the color, the color space is RGB.

Thanks
 
Unfortunately, PSE is limited to HSL, RGB and LAB, it is a photography application first, after all. I would have liked for it to be more robust myself, but this is what you get.
 
One could take screen capture jpegs of the picture style editor while adjusting and drop them on an NLE timeline hooked up to a broadcast monitor. Repeat until the colors are better. I might try that. What do you think?
 
Bassman2003 said:
One could take screen capture jpegs of the picture style editor while adjusting and drop them on an NLE timeline hooked up to a broadcast monitor. Repeat until the colors are better. I might try that. What do you think?
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It might work. I don't actually have a proper video monitor yet, so I can't comment much here.

Its funny though comparing the hpx500 with a dslr
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Indeed, it's about as useful as asking whether an AF is better than an HPX, different cameras for different uses.
 
Its funny though comparing the hpx500 with a dslr
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These comparisons are just borne out the fact that folks starting on a cheaper camera (whatever that camera is) which manages to excite/inspire etc makes them wonder aloud... why in the universe people would spend x10 (more than on a dslr) on say a camcorder with what appears to them to have little additional features. Almost always related to 'image'.

I've got lots of friends investing in dslrs - starting out in filmmaking who just can't imagine why they'd bother with a regular camcorder, never mind xlr's or more robust codecs or functionality/ergonomics etc. The comparison is pointless to those basically who have worked with camcorders and dslrs - who can recognise the difference needs both products can now serve.
 
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YUV 5D Settings Attempt

YUV 5D Settings Attempt

For those that might want to try these settings, I have uploaded my picture style profile that was made today. These settings are to get 5D video footage to have proper colors when the footage is editied in a YUV colorspace.

My workflow was messy: Took a RAW shot of color charts, put this in the PSE. Also took video of the charts. Looked at the video on my broadcast monitor through Edius. Then basically guessed at different colors, output a new scene file to the camera, shot more video, put it on the NLE timeline and repeated...and repeated...:)

What I have ended up with is decent. I still made corrections in Edius to finish it off but the scene file is a huge start so you do not have to bend the colors too far.

This is not scientific. I did not use scopes. But it is an improvement, so please do not barbecue me!

Thank you to Kolor Picker for suggestion the PSE. This has literally brought my 5D & 7D into my production choices now as I had previosly written them off due to funky colors.

Anyway, hope it helps.
 

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Here's what the 500 has over the 5D or 7D:
XLR inputs, strong codec, long record times, HD/SDI, no over-heating, no moire and aliasing. Basic advantages that a true professional camcorder can offer. That's why you'd choose a 500 over a DSLR.
Will it be as sharp a picture as a DSLR? I don't know, but understand the 500 is older HD tech. It has uprezzed SD chips, which was a compromise from the start. There are more advanced HD cameras out now, for a cheaper price.
I sold my 500 for an XF305 and never looked back.
You want to shoot video, use a video camera. That's what they're designed for. You want to shoot stills, use a DSLR. I understand they're great at that.
DSLRs, with their large sensors, once had the advantage over video cams in DoF control. Now, even that has been negated by the new large sensor HD cams. I'll take an AF100 or an FS100 over any DSLR any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
 
For those that might want to try these settings, I have uploaded my picture style profile that was made today. These settings are to get 5D video footage to have proper colors when the footage is editied in a YUV colorspace.
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Cool, I'm gonna have to try this out, but anyway, glad you managed to get something out of it.

We have done some test and I don't find very much reasons to choose the HPX500:
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Call me old-fashioned, but I have no idea what those charts imply, and I just don't like charts for gauging real-world performance. The real-world isn't a flat plane with contrasty lines.

Will it be as sharp a picture as a DSLR? I don't know, but understand the 500 is older HD tech. It has uprezzed SD chips, which was a compromise from the start.
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Yes, the 500 is 960x540 res, which is half-HD, so it's not even a 720p cam, however, due to aliasing issues, the xD cameras cannot resolve real detail past 600 tv lines or so, so they are rather limited despite being "full-raster" anyway. A newer camera, even a 1/3"er can have greater absolute resolving power if it's a proper full-raster camcorder, as vanvideo said - an XF300/5, or an HPX250/300/370, ect.

However, as I said in my first reply here, it's not always about sharpness, in a run & gun situation the camera is going to be shaking all the time anyway, so there goes your resolution right there. If you want any camera to show it's full qualities, mount it on a good support system and follow cinema rules for camera movement, otherwise the look, style, lighting, content and audio will always take precedence over details. If you want, I can post up still frames from at least a dozen highly-rated films where the scene is just plain blurry or out of focus.
 
Now that I think of it, I dare say that one could probably improve the resolution from dSLRs by putting some sort of diffusion/softening filter on the lens, as it would get rid of that moire.
I didn't bother to look at the charts till now (since everyone else is looking), but yeah, the HPX does look rather smooth, but IMO it's a better "defect" than moire any day. Here are a few bits I highlighted:

Canon7Dcopy.jpg

^ Not real detail, it's moire disguised as detail, there is really nothing there except color swirls.

Canon7Dchartcopy.jpg

^ I've highlighted areas past which I consider detail doesn't improve, the 7D puts out a solid 500-550 lines, does 600 ok, but doesn't get to 650, so not that much better than the 500.

Still a good idea to have a dSLR though, much cheaper, easier and more convenient for steadicam and POV use, such as in cars and other cramped, available space/light scenarios.
 
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an sd cam?! oh dear... its an hd camera obviously and why even say it is when surely you must know its well... considered an hd camera lol?! :) Its an issue barrys had to settle here over and over regarding chips and technologies and how such images are formed. I really find it ridiculous that we keep reclassifying what constitutes real 'hd' most ususally dependent on a new products marketing strategy.
 
Haha, I know, I was just being flippant. I'll go back on my comment, but with people hyped up on new technology as of late, no thanks in part to NAB, I just had to exaggerate a little.
 
hehe Kolor - god knows but you know that hype is just such bs isn't it. I know its a little offtopic but you have all these filmmakers who barely have a penny to scrape together buying absolute crap they don't really need. Where as we know plenty of guys making money for old rock in the corporate sphere with sd mini dv cams even. Hyperbole and marketing is what we often engage in - to promote our films or services or whatever, but its just a wonder why we repeat the mantras of camera manufacturers to each other on a forum that well... is really supposed to for our own voices.

Colour sampling luma charting bum kissing algae eaters! hehe just give me a jam jar and a casette recorder :P
 
Forums have a tendency to do that, I guess, not much to say there, but one can't really blame anyone else here, since this is a forum centered around camera hardware and all. What we do is both an art and a craft and it's easy get caught up in the craft side of things, not that it's bad, many of the things I learn online usually stem from heated discussion. Call me what you will, but it's an entertaining way to get information out of people, which is why I don't often hold back with my comments, someone's bound to correct me. :tongue:
 
"For me" HDSRL best B camera.
Cameras A all HPX: audio, no moiré, no rolling sh., long rec.....
Camera B reflex: dof, More details in the wide-angle shooting, small and handy for special occasions.

My test:
HPX500 -fujinon HD 17x7.6x2
HPX171
Canon7D -canon 24mmTSE L -Samyang 85mm 1.4
 
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