Adobe moves to Creative Cloud, Cancels Creative Suite

Michael Schrengohst said:
Yep, that's why I am glad I will probably be retired in 4-5 years….Adobe is like that old friend that was reliable for so long. They had their quirks and sometimes frustrated the hell out of you but you keep relying on them anyway. Now they are saying that they are moving on and looking for new friends that will pay them every month for their company. Have a nice life, old friend….
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Yeah, it's weird right? I had such a visceral reaction to all this that I had to stop and examine it. I found myself ranting about it to people without prompting. It felt like I was being jilted! "We had this great thing, I want to continue our relationship but you've got something new now..." freakin' nutty.
 
When you do the math over an entire career ( say 20-30 years) , the ROI looks horrible. I could almost do better going back to BC ( Before Computers ) and airbrushing composites on 16X20's (Kidding).
All this does is discourage the end user and cause them to RETHINK a career in digital imaging at the outset.
THAT will lower the resource pool and THAT will kill innovation.
Stupid Adobe. Very stupid.

keylight said:
It's really great to hear that for you, this is a good deal. Economically for MANY others it is a very bad deal.

View attachment 70932

I know, what's $1230 over 6 years, right? It's only $205/year.

Now consider that MOST people here (not you) and MANY people in general, bought a suite back around CS, CS2, or CS3 (CS3 was a HUGE entry point for many). Now compare:

View attachment 70933

A difference of $2355, or $393/year. Chump change for some, not for others.

But I think you must know that the price isn't the main problem many people have. It IS a problem, but not the big one. This is:



Forget open source software not being able to read Photoshop files. What about when Photoshop CS6 can't read Photoshop CC in 3 years? Why then you start paying Adobe.

(The other big problem is that selling upgrades is GREAT motivation to innovate - need new features to get people to upgrade. Selling a subscription that your customers literally can't live without because you're a monopoly and have no real competition, is an incentive to sit on your ass and save money by NOT innovating.)
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Zephyrnoid said:
All this does is discourage the end user and cause them to RETHINK a career in digital imaging at the outset.
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There are plenty of more imposing issues that you would think would discourage someone from a career in digital imaging way before this. I highly doubt that Adobe will cause anyone to rethink in a career in imaging.
 
Gary Huff said:
There are plenty of more imposing issues that you would think would discourage someone from a career in digital imaging way before this. I highly doubt that Adobe will cause anyone to rethink in a career in imaging.
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But it may cause them to re-think the idea of a career with Adobe.
 
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hscully said:
Yeah, it's weird right? I had such a visceral reaction to all this that I had to stop and examine it. I found myself ranting about it to people without prompting. It felt like I was being jilted! "We had this great thing, I want to continue our relationship but you've got something new now..." freakin' nutty.
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Yeah my After Effects 5.5 is now a bastard child.
 
kurth said:
If apple were smart, they'd be cutting their fcpx prices....and sony vegas as well. Then we'd be hearing adobes retraction in about a week !
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Apple do not even need to drop the price of FCPX. It's already the cheapest "professional" editor out there (perpetual license is equivalent to 15 months of Premiere CC) and updates are free too. Many of those people they previously alienated will probably take a second look now, and realise Apple have been working hard on adding back some of the functionality that was missing at it's first release.

f64manray said:
Should I pay? Of course, but in the same way I pay for my camera. Canon as of yet hasn't started a leasing program and stopped selling cameras effectively saying I can shoot a 5DIII for $50 a month, and if I stop paying, they will deactivate my camera via GPS.
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It's even worse than that - it's like Canon saying "you can lease our camera, but if you stop paying then all the clips you've shot with that camera are no longer viewable anywhere."

People rent cameras on shoots all the time - for large productions it is normal and helps with all sorts of things from support (ie you are not responsible for servicing/maintaining the equipment) to accounting (because it becomes a recurring expense rather than a depreciating asset) to inventory (because you don't have to flog it off when the production finishes and the assets are dissolved). Heck, many productions even rent their Avid seats too for similar reasons. But that does not mean it is right for everyone and it should be the only option - especially if at the end of the lease period, you could no longer access your film negatives or digital files shot on that leased camera!

adkimery said:
Adobe has stated that 5 versions back of CC apps will be available for download at any one and that all CC apps will basically have a "save as previous version" function that will included CS6 (the last version w/a perpetual license).
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This is one important point that Adobe should be heralding - if I can be on the Cloud for two years, then stop subscribing but still open projects using my perpetual license of CS6 (assuming I've saved it in the right format), it changes things - at least until CC updates so much that these projects start to get problems with missing features/codecs etc. Which is probably about the same point where Adobe will start raising the subscription cost...
 
I haven't noticed Adobe having a monopoly on any of their proprietary file formats in recent years. The market has evolved to the point that there are multiple apps available, from freeware to high end, that can open and work with most any Adobe originals. The general market trend is more towards common open standard codecs and file formats that can be shared by any digital media application on any platform.
 
Razz16mm said:
I haven't noticed Adobe having a monopoly on any of their proprietary file formats in recent years. The market has evolved to the point that there are multiple apps available, from freeware to high end, that can open and work with most any Adobe originals. The general market trend is more towards common open standard codecs and file formats that can be shared by any digital media application on any platform.
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  • Photoshop files (or layerd tifs for that matter) don't seamlessly import into other applications. Simple PSD files might import, but not files with smart layers and all the other non-destructive editing Photoshop is capable of doing these days.
  • InDesign are only compatible with other Adobe Applications
  • After Effects can be opened in what other software for editing?

PDFs and Premiere projects (when exported to open formats, which requires owning Premiere) can be opened in other programs.

If you're aware of non-Adobe software that can fully open Adobe created files/projects, please do let us know. It would be very helpful. Of course, Adobe could make all of their formats open so they really are portable, but they're not going to do that.

deltoidjohn said:
This is one important point that Adobe should be heralding - if I can be on the Cloud for two years, then stop subscribing but still open projects using my perpetual license of CS6 (assuming I've saved it in the right format), it changes things - at least until CC updates so much that these projects start to get problems with missing features/codecs etc. Which is probably about the same point where Adobe will start raising the subscription cost...
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This is another example of how CS6 will eventually break, forcing people onto CC. That's Adobe's opportunity to raise prices and reduce R&D costs (a.k.a. slow innovation to a crawl).
 
FCP X would be killer - IF they went back to the timeline of FCP 7….
I use FCP X - but I just can't use it on some projects. Especially where
I might have 10 layers on the timeline…
Yes I know you can do compound clips and such but
it is a major PITA when a client wants to change something….
I had one project I did on FCP X. The client wanted changes
and hours spent in FCP X frustration were erased
when I re-built the project in FCP 7…it was like a breathe of fresh air.
Apple are you listening (or reading)???
 
Gillvane said:
For the pro, you should of course use whatever works for you and you should be making enough money to chalk this up to a cost of doing business.

But for the Hobbyist this Sony Suite looks like an attractive alternative, it works with Hitfilm so you can ad FX right into your timeline:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegasprosuite/hitfilm2
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Looks great - heres the problem.

Microsoft[SUP]®[/SUP] Windows Vista[SUP]®[/SUP] 64-bit SP2, Windows 7 64-bit, or Windows[SUP]®[/SUP] 8 64-bit operating system
​
 
Michael Schrengohst said:
Looks great - heres the problem.

Microsoft[SUP]®[/SUP] Windows Vista[SUP]®[/SUP] 64-bit SP2, Windows 7 64-bit, or Windows[SUP]®[/SUP] 8 64-bit operating system
​
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I use a PC so that's no problem for me. They are working on a Mac version of Hit Film2 for the Apple users. One of the reasons I like using a PC is that rarely if ever do I find a program that doesn't work on a PC. FCPX is one of the only programs I can think of that doesn't work on a PC.
 
Michael Schrengohst said:
FCP X would be killer - IF they went back to the timeline of FCP 7….
I use FCP X - but I just can't use it on some projects. Especially where
I might have 10 layers on the timeline…
Yes I know you can do compound clips and such but
it is a major PITA when a client wants to change something….
I had one project I did on FCP X. The client wanted changes
and hours spent in FCP X frustration were erased
when I re-built the project in FCP 7…it was like a breathe of fresh air.
Apple are you listening (or reading)???
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I find alot of these frustrations get worked out with just learning to use the program. I've had multiple 5-10 layer timelines, and once you learn and adjust to the snapping main storyline, it actually makes it easier to make small adjustments keeping the whole intact. I don't mean to belittle you here, but to encourage you to learn it. There is great forums here where FCPX users can answer questions for problems you encounter.
 
TheReverend said:
I find alot of these frustrations get worked out with just learning to use the program. I've had multiple 5-10 layer timelines, and once you learn and adjust to the snapping main storyline, it actually makes it easier to make small adjustments keeping the whole intact. I don't mean to belittle you here, but to encourage you to learn it. There is great forums here where FCPX users can answer questions for problems you encounter.
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I keep trying - have looked at dozens of tutorials - I guess I am just an idiot.
 
Great post by Thom Hogan, which I encourage everyone to read. An excerpt:

One problem for Adobe is that the more people think deeply about the change to the Creative Suite with the (faux) cloud offering, the more they discover some substantive underlying issues.

Let's just say for a moment that I'm at a University and teaching future media students (this isn't a moot point for me, as I've been approached several times to be an adjunct professor lately). What software do you teach and train students on?

The file lock-in potential on products such as Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Premiere, and After Effects now becomes a tangible issue in answering that question. You'd essentially be committing your students to a life of having to pay software fees to access their work. Not a good thing, and not really a decision you can morally justify easily.
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Now.... if only a Moderator could merge these two threads into one, so we could discuss in one place an minimize cross posting.....

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?307206-Adobe-moves-to-Creative-Cloud-Cancels-Creative-Suite
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...ot-Creative-Cloud-quot-(CC)-with-NEW-FEATURES
 
Michael Schrengohst said:
FCP X would be killer - IF they went back to the timeline of FCP 7….
I use FCP X - but I just can't use it on some projects. Especially where
I might have 10 layers on the timeline…
Yes I know you can do compound clips and such but
it is a major PITA when a client wants to change something….
I had one project I did on FCP X. The client wanted changes
and hours spent in FCP X frustration were erased
when I re-built the project in FCP 7…it was like a breathe of fresh air.
Apple are you listening (or reading)???
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You genuinely might be using the software the wrong way. I recommend you do the Ripple Training course, or something, from start to finish. You just need to get the hang of the new workflow, and then you fly through edits at a speed never possible with FCP7. There is no going back at his point (now that the updates have brought back most (if not all) of the missing functionality.
 
I do not know if you have see that Adobe share price is a low for the last month now. I know as video producers, editor etc....... do not like change or that big companies like Apple, MS, Adobe, etc ...... make our minds up for us with their Big Brother approach, the only way is to hit them where it hurts the most , their bottom line, like in my country if the poeple do not get their way we strike, loot and burn everything ;) well ok in this case it is diffical, I for one showed my prostet and have bought a cross graded to GV Edius Pro and I am able to do all the same editing like I did in Adobe even in somecase eazier and faster. Thank goodness there are other options.
 
Michael Schrengohst said:
I keep trying - have looked at dozens of tutorials - I guess I am just an idiot.
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Nah. "You must unlearn what you have learned" to quote a famous little green man. At first it always feels like, "why is that moving? Why don't you stay where I put you!" But then you learn little things like the difference between delete (backspace) and delete which leaves a gap. You learn how to make "sparse disk images" that hold your data and you let FCPX organize and contain your TONS of data easily. You learn that even if FCPX crashes you NEVER lose you project work, all while NEVER having to save. You learn that you need to be careful when adding crossfades to non-storyline clips. You learn that using the "t" roll tool, "r" region tool, the expand audio/video button, the thumbnail controller, compounding clips and other things fix alot of the issues that you have. I don't know about you, but I had (and still do) alot of bad habits for editing before FCPX that have been worked out such as dropping whole clips onto a track and cutting in the sequence instead of cutting before timeline insertion.

If you don't like it and it doesn't work for you, that's totally fine and understandable and you don't have to use it. If you are discouraged, let me encourage that you can do it, and that I'm CERTAIN that it is a drastically more efficient way to work (coming from FCP7). Personally, I think questions and answers will probably do more for you than tutorials. So feel free to PM me some of those questions, or just ask them on the forums here.
 
TheReverend said:
Nah. "You must unlearn what you have learned" to quote a famous little green man. At first it always feels like, "why is that moving? Why don't you stay where I put you!" But then you learn little things like the difference between delete (backspace) and delete which leaves a gap. You learn how to make "sparse disk images" that hold your data and you let FCPX organize and contain your TONS of data easily. You learn that even if FCPX crashes you NEVER lose you project work, all while NEVER having to save. You learn that you need to be careful when adding crossfades to non-storyline clips. You learn that using the "t" roll tool, "r" region tool, the expand audio/video button, the thumbnail controller, compounding clips and other things fix alot of the issues that you have. I don't know about you, but I had (and still do) alot of bad habits for editing before FCPX that have been worked out such as dropping whole clips onto a track and cutting in the sequence instead of cutting before timeline insertion.

If you don't like it and it doesn't work for you, that's totally fine and understandable and you don't have to use it. If you are discouraged, let me encourage that you can do it, and that I'm CERTAIN that it is a drastically more efficient way to work (coming from FCP7). Personally, I think questions and answers will probably do more for you than tutorials. So feel free to PM me some of those questions, or just ask them on the forums here.
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Very interesting..... I'm an old Avid editor who moved to PP the last couple of years. I'm going to wean myself off of as much of Adobe as I can. So I'm looking at moving back to Avid or something else. I only use PCs these days, but I'm thinking I need to give FCPX a try. Any ideas/suggestions about Hackintosh compatibility?
 
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