F35: Aces

Which film lut are you talking about? The presets in DaVinci? I possibly underexposed my footage too much. But I thought the codec would hold up better.
 
odshannon said:
Which film lut are you talking about? The presets in DaVinci? I possibly underexposed my footage too much. But I thought the codec would hold up better.
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Ah I was just saying that if you look at the same footage under a proper slog transform lut in yrgb space, ACES is not the culprit. The noise is in the footage. And the F35 is noisy! Part of the look. Noise btw has nothing to do with the codec, which would mean smudging and macroblocking. That shadow noise you're seeing is inherent to the CCD sensor.
 
MikalZ said:
Ah I was just saying that if you look at the same footage under a proper slog transform lut in yrgb space, ACES is not the culprit. The noise is in the footage. And the F35 is noisy! Part of the look. Noise btw has nothing to do with the codec, which would mean smudging and macroblocking. That shadow noise you're seeing is inherent to the CCD sensor.
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I see, thanks for clarifying. I'm excited to see what neat video can do. I'm not against F35 noise but some of my underexposed stuff is too much.
 
dhessel said:
If you need a noise profile for neat video let me know and I can shoot one for you.
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David, buying Neat video today actually. Do you recommend making my own profile or is yours the better route? Don't know much about the proper ways to use Neat Video.

EDIT: I just realized you probably mean shooting a blank noise profile of the CCD sensor. I would love to have that. I'm assuming that's the cleanest way to go!
 
Yes that is what I was talking about. Looking through their users manual it looks like they recommend building a noise profile per clip rather than just using a pre-shot one like I was offering for better accuracy.
 
Ah I see, well thanks anyway David. Appreciate your help!

dhessel said:
Yes that is what I was talking about. Looking through their users manual it looks like they recommend building a noise profile per clip rather than just using a pre-shot one like I was offering for better accuracy.
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No problem, I can still shoot one if you find you might want to try it. I just got a 7q and will be able to shoot again once I get it all set up.
 
Yes that is what I was talking about. Looking through their users manual it looks like they recommend building a noise profile per clip rather than just using a pre-shot one like I was offering for better accuracy.
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I definitely recommend creating a profile per clip or per scene also. Although F35 random very random in nature, noise shifts slightly based on variations in exposure + overall camera heat/environment temperature.
It really helps to shoot a full screen grey card or white card between setups (when you can) throughout a day of shooting.
 
dhessel said:
This is refering to something a little bit different, if you don't set an ODT then you will be viewing it linear which is very contrasty. What you have is just normal Rec709 contrast with its 8 or so stops of DR. It looks so contrasty just because we are so used to seeing it flat shot in log.

It shouldn't be flat at all it should look like you shot in Rec709 rather than a log profile. Everything is done in linear floating point space so all of your highlights are still there they are just super white you can bring all of it back down if you want. Doing this in combination with Resolves color chart tool will give you a very neutral starting point.

Using this approach in combination with the color chart tool in resolve will get you a very neutral starting point for grading.

Would be great to see a final image.
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dhessel, on the topic of Color Match inside ACES Davinci: what are you specifying as target and source gamma? I'm finding the best result with both set to linear (not for example slog/srgb). I think this makes sense as the input lut transforms the slog to linear.

Also, I'd like to play with Hypergamma inside ACES but cannot find an IDT. Have you had any luck with this?
 
I have never seen a hypergamma IDT but as I understand it the hypergammas are not really ment to be graded as much as they are more of a what you see is what you get curve. The correct settings should be linear for source gamma, linear for output gamma and ACES for outupt colorspace. The reason for this is the IDT is converting the footage from slog/sgamut to linear/aces when you apply the IDT so by the time you get to the colorchecker the footage is in ACES colorspace just as you suspected.
 
Does anyone know which post-house handled the grading for the TV show 'Justified'? They had an ACES IDT for the F35 apparently. We need to collectively track them down, and get a copy of it.
 
dhessel said:
I have never seen a hypergamma IDT but as I understand it the hypergammas are not really ment to be graded as much as they are more of a what you see is what you get curve. The correct settings should be linear for source gamma, linear for output gamma and ACES for outupt colorspace. The reason for this is the IDT is converting the footage from slog/sgamut to linear/aces when you apply the IDT so by the time you get to the colorchecker the footage is in ACES colorspace just as you suspected.
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Thanks for confirming the color check settings. I'm finding this to be a useful tool, although sometimes the post 'checked image is surprisingly noisy.

In terms of hypergamma, my understanding is that yes it can be previewed without mluts and is very close to rec709, but still must be transformed and is fair game for grading in rec709 fashion, doing things like boosting saturation. There is an HG4 IDT in Vegas apparently called Cine1.
 
dhessel said:
For those of you who have not tried using ACES with slog/sgamut from the F35 you absolutely should. It has been giving me the best most neutral results I have ever had from the F35. Combined with the color chart feature in Resolve the results you end up with an excellent base for grading with very little work and are superior to just using the color chart feature without ACES. For any Nuke users out there, Nuke has an F35 IDT built in.

The only downside I have seen so far with Resolve is that once in ACES film emulation luts designed for Rec709 don't seem to work properly, interestingly I have not noticed that behaviour in Nuke but haven't fully looked into it either. I am not using them with the F35 anymore anyway. FilmConvert seems to work fine in ACES for both. Once you get used to how to ACES configured it is very simple to use and getting it setup is only a few simple steps. You also gain the advantage of being able to keep the wide gamut of sgamut if you ever want to go out to anything other than Rec709.


If you have not seen it below is a article on how to uses ACES in Resolve with the F35.

http://www.filmscientist.com/blog/2015/01/29/film-scientist-aces-workflow-revisited/
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Anyone has working version of this link? The link is not working for me. Thanks.
 
FYI, Resolve now has a Slog/Sgamut IDT built in so the one in the link you posted isn't needed anymore. Also rbirnbaum has posted a workflow for the F35 in Resolve that doesn't use ACES. Instead it uses the Colorspace Transform OFX effect that ships with resolve. There is a topic here in the forums about it.
 
dhessel said:
FYI, Resolve now has a Slog/Sgamut IDT built in so the one in the link you posted isn't needed anymore. Also rbirnbaum has posted a workflow for the F35 in Resolve that doesn't use ACES. Instead it uses the Colorspace Transform OFX effect that ships with resolve. There is a topic here in the forums about it.
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I didn't know the Resolve had an IDT support for the F35, can you point me to that article, I found some conversations about it here but not really the workflow could you please share that post? Thanks a lot.
 
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