ALL: AC160 or AC130 - Which will you choose and why?

[scapsinger]

Curious what the general feel is out there right now. The AC160 is on the market right now, and the AC130 will be here in a few weeks. With all the similarities, I'm curious how many people will choose to pay the premium price for the AC160 and why. So I'm encouraging others to chime in.

- Which one will you choose - AC160 or AC130?
- If you are choosing the AC160, are you doing so because you NEED the additional features, or because you THINK that you MIGHT need those features later? (AKA - future-proofing)
- If you are choosing the AC130, are you doing so because you just want to save a few bucks, or because you absolutely know that you will have no use for the additional features of the AC160?
- What camera are you CURRENTLY using, and does your current camera influence your choice between the two models, or does it influence your choice to buy into this camera line at all?

For me, I'm not decided yet, but I may very well stick with the AC130. My work doesn't usually require the kind of additional features of the AC160.

For the sake of $1,000 (or whatever the street difference ends up being), I think the AC130 will work just fine for me. I'll use the savings to buy a couple gallons of gas.

Currently I'm using HMC150 cameras, and having been happy with those for so long now, I really don't feel like I need to look anywhere else. I think the AC130 will probably match quite well with my HMC150 cameras so I can continue to use those as B-cams. From what I've seen so far, these new Panny cameras really beat out most all other cameras in this segment right now, so what little consideration I had for some of the recent Canon and Sony offerings has kind of gone by the wayside. Plus, with my intentions to ONE DAY grab an AF100, I think the AC130/160 will match that well enough to use this as a B-camera for an AF100. So there's a bit of "future-proofing" in my mind there as well.

Really, the only thing that would have me on the AC160 over the AC130 right now is the fact that I can have an AC160 in a few days (might have a shoot where the 22x zoom would be extremely useful next week). Otherwise, the AC130 suits me just fine.

Anyone else want to add in here?

 

[Phil1076]

Curious what the general feel is out there right now. The AC160 is on the market right now, and the AC130 will be here in a few weeks. With all the similarities, I'm curious how many people will choose to pay the premium price for the AC160 and why. So I'm encouraging others to chime in.

- Which one will you choose - AC160 or AC130?
- If you are choosing the AC160, are you doing so because you NEED the additional features, or because you THINK that you MIGHT need those features later? (AKA - future-proofing)
- If you are choosing the AC130, are you doing so because you just want to save a few bucks, or because you absolutely know that you will have no use for the additional features of the AC160?

Can't this be said for all cameras? There's always a tradeoff and the only 2 real differences between the cameras is HD-SDI out and VFR. I have no idea how these 2 basic features command an almost $1000 price premium, but it is what it is.

Just get the one that suits your needs.

 

[Barry_Green]

There are four differences between them:
HD-SDI output
Variable frame rates
Uncompressed audio
50/60hz switchability

With that list of changes and the $1000 price difference, I know exactly which one I'd go for. And I bet many people feel the same way - even though they'd be choosing the other one! :thumbsup:

 

[abeas]

I bought the 160. Not because I will use all of these features from day 1, but because I may want them in the future. The HD-SDI is the big one. The over cranking is nice, but it's so simple to conform media in FCP X now that even that isn't that exciting anymore. Undercranking is another story. Uncompressed audio is nice, but most of my stuff ends up on DVD or the web so it is going to get encoded to AC3 or AAC anyways.
For $1000, I think the additional features are worth it; I'm just not sure how much I will use them. At any rate, I am glad I spent the extra money and have the option to use them. The 130 will be a good B-cam.

 

[ullanta]

If I were to get one, I'd get the 160, and only because of the uncompressed audio. I wish the 130 woulda had that, because I dint need any of the hardware features of the 160 which are probably most of the price difference.

 

[scapsinger]

If I were to get one, I'd get the 160, and only because of the uncompressed audio. I wish the 130 woulda had that, because I dint need any of the hardware features of the 160 which are probably most of the price difference.

Agreed, as Barry pointed out (and has pointed out at least 70 other times lately) there are only the 4 distinct differences between the two. The main one for most people is probably HD-SDI output, corroborated by abeas' response. I would have also liked the uncompressed audio in the 130, but I have an H4n recorder and I frequently have that plugged in for many productions, so for the $200 cost of the recorder, the problem is more or less solved for me on that one.

PAL/NTSC switching is not something I've had to deal with in many years, and VFR for me is also very infrequent. But I would say that the HD-SDI out is worth $1,000 since if you are the kind of person whose work requires that, then you also probably have the proper budget for another $1,000 easily.

At any rate, both are very well priced in my opinion...especially the 160. Just 2-3 years ago, a camera with those features would have been much larger and much much more expensive, nevermind the more expensive media required (read: non-SDHC media).

 

[scapsinger]

Can't this be said for all cameras? There's always a tradeoff and the only 2 real differences between the cameras is HD-SDI out and VFR. I have no idea how these 2 basic features command an almost $1000 price premium, but it is what it is.

Canon has released at least a couple of sets of camcorders over the past 5-6 years that were identical with the exception being input/output and a few thousand $$$$. I believe Sony has done this as well. This is somewhat of a first for Panasonic, thus the purpose I felt in posting this thread. With the AC160 and the AC130 being copycats minus the difference of 4 features and only $1,000-ish, I thought it might be interesting to see how that is playing out in other people's minds here at DVXUser. So I wouldn't necessarily agree that this can always be stated for all cameras. I know that especially with the Canon models, the difference has usually been $3,000 to $4,000 for the addition of HD-SDI, which is a non-starter for most people. Panasonic's pricing is a much easier to cross bridge for those who find themselves thinking "it's more than I need right now, but....."

Just get the one that suits your needs.

That isn't really the point of my post...I personally don't need convincing on either one, since I know A) which one I want between the AC160 and AC130 and B) which one I'm actually going to get (and of course they are not the same camera...). I'm planning to go with the AC130, but that's just me and my situation. Regardless, I'd read my initial post as more of an informal survey and less of a question of "what should I do?".

EDITORIAL: For what it's worth, I'm not sure if anyone around here really ever needs to hear "get the one that suits your needs" since any user posting in an effort to make that kind of decision is probably trying to find out which one DOES suit their needs. Ignoratio elenchi.

 

[ullanta]

. I would have also liked the uncompressed audio in the 130, but I have an H4n recorder and I frequently have that plugged in for many productions, so for the $200 cost of the recorder, the problem is more or less solved for me on that one.

Yes, this has to do with my own pricing gradations; in my musical event recording I offer a super-discount package where the mics feed directly into the camera, vs all the other packages which are double system (ranging from 744t to 32 channel protools rig). I won't use compressed audio for the budget package; the quality difference between my HVX200a and HMC150 (when fed identical line-level signals) is pretty drastic if I boost levels in post.

 

[Greg Smith]

I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but am considering upgrading my HMC80 to one of these cameras (I also own an AF100). For me, the AC160 is a no-brainer as I really want the uncompressed audio for music recording. I also want to be able to connect the camera through a switcher from time to time, which requires SDI, and I might occasionally use the VFR feature. So all in all, I would benefit at least part of the time from three of the AC160's extra features.

Now if I were going to add yet another camera to my inventory after the AC160, the AC130 would definitely be tempting for that, although it would limit my options for using a video switcher a little bit.

- Greg

 

[qap15]

Yes, this has to do with my own pricing gradations; in my musical event recording I offer a super-discount package where the mics feed directly into the camera, vs all the other packages which are double system (ranging from 744t to 32 channel protools rig). I won't use compressed audio for the budget package; the quality difference between my HVX200a and HMC150 (when fed identical line-level signals) is pretty drastic if I boost levels in post.

Didn't i read somewhere that the uncompressed audio although present, is restricted to only one mode?

 

[ullanta]

Yes, it's only available in PH mode - but PH mode is the most flexible, and encompasses all possible frame rates at either 1080 or 720. Umm, and in DV mode, if you want to shoot SD.

 

[Deer Film]

Hi, these are basic questions I have. I like the 130, because it looks to be a good fit to work with my HMC150.
What is HD-SDI output used for?
Variable frame rates, do I need this if I will work in post later on?
Why would you use uncompressed audio? I don't think the HMC150 has this. Would the average person hear the difference? I am sure the compression they use is very good on the 130. I know uncompressed anything is the best, but I want to hear your thoughts on the audio part.
50/60hz switchability , what would you use this for? If I just shoot in the US, is it needed?

And does anyone have an idea when the 130 is coming out and ready to buy?
And last, with any product, there might be a chance of defaults or something wrong with the first batch. Would you buy right away, or wait, or will Panasonic take care of you?
Thank you for your time.

 

[scapsinger]

Yes, it's only available in PH mode - but PH mode is the most flexible, and encompasses all possible frame rates at either 1080 or 720. Umm, and in DV mode, if you want to shoot SD.

Somewhat off-topic (here I go derailing my own thread), but I gotta say that it's going to be less and less useful to shoot in anything except PH mode with the increasing size of the SD cards and the fact that you can relay between two cards on here. With a 64GB card, you can get something like 6 hours of the highest quality on this camera, and with 2 64GB cards, you get 12 hours. Even if you're just using 16GB cards, it's going to be 3 hours continuous between two cards, adding 1.5 hours every time you swap in a new card. As the user manual states, you can only have a maximum continuous recording time of 12 hours using relay recording no matter how many cards you swap in.

If you're doing a live video stream through the FireWire port (or if you know you don't need HD video), then DV mode is nice, but for everything else, it's just becoming unnecessary in many cases to try to save the space on the lower quality settings.

 

[scapsinger]

What is HD-SDI output used for?

If you have an external recorder, or are connecting to a video switcher, or other HD-SDI device for the purpose of attaining the highest quality output from this camcorder. It bypasses the AVCHD compression. If you are asking this question, you probably don't need it. But then again, maybe you want it now that you know what you can do with it.

Variable frame rates, do I need this if I will work in post later on?

Maybe, maybe not. Obviously it's easy to speed up footage in post, a bit harder to slow it down. However, if you have footage that you know will be running timelapse or fast speed, it's better to record it that way to begin with since it uses less storage on the card, so that's one advantage. Likewise, overcranking in the camera allows the best slow-mo effect in post. If you're recording 1080p24 and overcranking to 48p, then you've got a potential to run half speed for very nice slo-mo. Keep in mind, with ALL the VFR modes, there is no audio recorded. So if you need to maintain the audio for whatever reason, you will either need to shoot in a standard (non-VFR) mode or use an external audio recorder like a Zoom H4n and sync in post.

Why would you use uncompressed audio? I don't think the HMC150 has this. Would the average person hear the difference? I am sure the compression they use is very good on the 130. I know uncompressed anything is the best, but I want to hear your thoughts on the audio part.

You more or less nailed it when you said "uncompressed anything is the best" because that's the point here. No, the average person probably wouldn't notice the difference, but uncompressed audio is a bit easier on the editing system, even if only slightly. But it gives you more latitude to apply audio effects and other adjustments in post. It does sound better, but I believe it also uses a big more storage as well. Most people would want uncompressed, but for many projects - especially event or ENG work - you may not really need it.

50/60hz switchability , what would you use this for? If I just shoot in the US, is it needed?

It's to switch between NTSC and PAL standards, and yes, you may need it even if you shoot in the US, if you are targeting the presentation for European TV for example. But as with the first question, the fact that you are asking means you probably don't need it.

And does anyone have an idea when the 130 is coming out and ready to buy?

November, possibly a few days sooner....or later. Would expect it very soon.

And last, with any product, there might be a chance of defaults or something wrong with the first batch. Would you buy right away, or wait, or will Panasonic take care of you?

Sure, there's always a chance. Panasonic has done a good job in recent years with providing firmware updates to patch the camcorders for issues or improvements. Look around and you will see very few furious forum members complaining about their Panny camera being junk. The AC160 is already shipping, and with the very close similarity to the AC130, you can look around at the few new AC160 owners for a taste of their personal experiences. So far, everyone is happy as far as I can tell, and through my own browsing around the web, I've yet to find any complaints - certainly nothing that would indicate a poor quality product.

 

[Deer Film]

Thank you very much for all the detail information. You talked about uncompressed audio. What is the HMC150 using for audio compared to the 130? I shoot a lot of interviews, and events. Mostly for the web,youtube or DVD. I have been happy with the audio from the HMC150. Of course I use wireless mics.
Connecting to a video switcher is something I might do later, and one of the events I am shooting, they want live footage up on a projections screen. But maybe I can find a different output/input and be able to work with the 130.

thank you again

 

[Barry_Green]

The HMC150 and AC130 are identical as far as audio recording is concerned.

 

[scapsinger]

Connecting to a video switcher is something I might do later, and one of the events I am shooting, they want live footage up on a projections screen. But maybe I can find a different output/input and be able to work with the 130.

When I need to do output to a projector on my HMC150 (assuming it's going directly to the projector, no switching) I've generally used an Ethernet adapter to go from the HMC150's component output to the projector's component input. If only composite is available on the projector, I just use one of the component cables on the Ethernet adapter and connect it to the composite output of the HCM150. Either way, I get a good image over 250 feet of Cat5 cable.

For a video switcher - especially if it's HD video - you're probably looking at HD-SDI out. I believe there are some video switchers out there that will let you run HDMI, but those are not typical for most studios that are doing this kind of thing.

 

[Deer Film]

Thank you , and it's decided.. I am getting the 130 for my needs.
I am a 2nd grade teacher, but I do video-jobs on the side. And when I bought the HMC150, I was nervous with the amount of money I had to spend, but the quality of the camera was awesome, and I got more jobs. So I am very excited to bring in another member to the family -the AC130.
Thank you for making the decision easy between the AC130 and AC160

 

[Jim Simon]

the quality difference between my HVX200a and HMC150 (when fed identical line-level signals) is pretty drastic if I boost levels in post.

That is a very useful piece of information. Thank you.

 

[C Walker]

i believe the 130 will suit me very well. I've been looking for a used HPX170, just because. But the price of the used camera PLUS the P2 cards just doesn't seem worth it. I don't think I need uncompressed audio for anything, or VFR (even though I've always wanted to have it)