About to purchase the Canon 7D

parallactic-pictures

parallactic-pictures

Active member
Hi all,

I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. Though, people I've worked with over the years have been telling me to join for a while now.

I'm a writer/director, first and foremost, but I feel it's high time I purchase a camera. I want something I can shoot on the weekend with, make some more shorts with, and learn more about cinematography from. All of the research I've done for cameras within the 2k price threshold is pointing me to the Canon 7D. The test footage I saw on YouTube is what sealed the deal for me.

I have a couple of questions though for you fine people.

1) I think I'm going to get the camera from NewEgg. Body only. I don't like that the lens kit that you can get with it as an option, only goes down to 28mm. I'd like something wider than that. So I'd just get the body and then buy a lens separately.

NewEgg has this lens which I may be getting:
TAMRON AF18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD Aspherical (IF) Macro Zoom Lens for Canon Digital SLR Camera

It's $229, after mail-in rebate. It doesn't have an IS/Hand Shake feature, which a few of the customers on there put as a Negative quality in the reviews. But I think these people are primarily photographers, b/c from what I've read, the IS feature can screw you up when you're shooting in the Live Video mode. And since my primary reason for getting this camera is to shoot HD video with it, this is my concern.

So my question is: Would I be right in getting a lens like this that doesn't have IS if my primary goal is to shoot Video with it?

There's a lens from TAMRON that is a step up from this, that goes up to 270mm, but that's over $500, and it has IS on it.

2) My other question is: This camera doesn't seem to come with a Flash memory card. So I have to buy that separately.

Any suggestions on a brand I should get? I'm trying to keep it cheap, but I'd like a 32GB card, if it's available.

Thanks all. I appreciate any advice.
 
Are you going to be holding the camera in your hand when you shoot? Or are you going to be on a tripod, steadicam, stabilizer, or other steadying device? If handheld, then the IS might help you. Otherwise, forget it. Unless you are planning on shooting birds in the trees, or bears from 400 yards, your challenge will be to get wide, not long. I'd be looking for a lens in the 14-85mm range. That will cover you from very wide establishing shots to extreme closeups. Also, that F3.5 is going to be somewhat limiting indoors. You'd really like something down in the F2 or F2.8 range if you can afford it.

2. Personally, I am a fan of Sandisk cards, but there are many good brands out there.
 
Just going to echo what Perrone said.

I use Sandisk and Lexar UDMA Cards.

When it comes to the IS on a lens, it's a a must if you plan on doing handheld work at the long end of the zoom. If you're going to be on a tripod or some sort of stabilizer 99% of the time, then don't worry about it.

I use the Canon EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS and love it. I know some people who use the Tamron 15-50 2.8 VC(their version of IS) and really like that lens as well and it's quite a bit cheaper than the Canon I use. Tough to find it on stock right now I hear, but if you can afford to go up to 700 for that lens I hear it's well worth it.
 
Following in the footsteps of those who came before me and adding my own thoughts.

1. f/3.5-5.6 will be a bit slow if you are not using a rather significant amount of light indoors.
2. 200mm is quite a zoom. At the same time, 18mm isn't that wide on the 7D.
3. In my opinion, IS is highly desirable at any focal lengths over ~70mm unless you are really locking it down on every shot.
4. I have used the Kingston 32GB 133x CF card without problems.
 
I've used the Kingston 16GB 133x and get the memory buffer icon from time to time. I haven't had any problems with the SanDisk Extreme IIIs.

Like everyone's mentioned, you're going to need IS. Even 70mm on a monopod is rough without it.

Also, I did sell one of my kit lenses (I've got 2 7Ds) on ebay for $250. That's a small profit from just buying the camera body only.
 
Well you will notice you dont see alot of zooming in videos shot with these cams. Its hard to keep the video steady, even on a tripod. As a photographer whos been using these cameras and lenses for years, I would look into good, fast primes. The Canon 35 f/1.4, 50 f/1.8 is a steal for $100, the 85 f/1.8 and the 135 f/2L. I would also stay away from anything longer than 200 on the tele side. Remember, the 7D is a 1.6x crop sensor so 200 is more than enough, especially for video because your going to start getting a really narrow view. Look into the Canon 70-200 f/4L IS, its one of the best lenses in the Canon lineup. You can get the non IS version for half the price ($600) too.
 
I use the Extreme III's as well...work perfectly fine ...but them's a bit pricey:undecided wish there was a cheaper alternative. Anyone?

I LOVE the kit lens I got with my 7D...it was the 15-85 zoom - and with the 1.6x crop, I actually have a 24-135...sweeet ass! It's a very nice lens. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
I also grabbed a nice ( however cheaply built) 50mm 1.8, and I'm currently looking around for a decently priced 85mm ...

buuuuuuuut...

now I find I also want a mattebox and follow focus... a few more filters...shoulder rig and stabilizer......:kali: $$$$$

ah well ...like my mantra on set..."all for the art" :shocked::nads:
 
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I use Sandisk Extreme IV's and bought 2 from ebay for like 50 bucks a piece brand new, so sometimes you can find some sweet deals.
 
Just remember that compromises are made in image quality when you get into extremely broad focal length ranges on zoom lenses. This is why many love primes, and many more love shorter-range zooms (16-35mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm). The shorter these focal range variances are - including zoom ranges of zero, i.e., prime lenses - the lenses will generally be faster (lower minimum f-stop, letting in more light) and the sharper they'll be. But life is all tradeoffs, including when it comes to budget. IS for video, IMO, is unnecessary in most cases. Realize what the tradeoffs a $300 lens on a camera that costs 5x that will be.

Depends, as always, on what you envision shooting. Using it to capture performances and act as an AV sketchbook of sorts for directorial purposes, as opposed to a fine-tuned image capture device, then image quality may matter less to you. If you want to go verité or hand-held, definitely look into stabilization of some sort (tri/monopod, shoulder brace, body brace, et multiple cetera).

Regardless, the 7D is a great purchase and a solid tool. Good luck. Oh, and +1 on the Sandisk Extreme IV's. Be sure to get something that's rated for UDMA - essential to ensure you don't run out of buffer when writing weighty realtime video files to disk.
 
Wow, I came back to this thread tonight and I'm blown away by the awesome advice you have all given me. I actually spent my time away from this thread researching the Canon 7D and potential lenses in person. I started the weekend going to Best Buy, as I have a 10% off discount there that lasts until tomorrow. That pretty much knocks the tax off. I had them put one 7D on hold for me. The guy there didn't know a helluva lot about lenses though...

So next up, my giirlfriend I spent a rainy Los Angeles Saturday afternoon in Samy's, which is pretty much like the California version of B&H. The guy in the Canon department knew a lot about lenses and gave me the advice that I see a lot of you recommending now, and that is:

That I should strongly consider getting a few good prime lenses over a zoom.

Being that I am going to be spending most of my time with this camera shooting 1080 HD, and setting up shots rather than just freestyling some hand-held, prime lenses seem to be the way to go. IS isn't a must, but I'd lesn towards having it, if it were an option. I guess a decent zoom lens that goes down to at least a 2.8 fs is also something I'd still consider.

So I'm now going to begin searching online for maybe a prime lens kit. I've worked with DPs in the past who have kits that contain three, sometimes four lenses in them. Usually a Wide, a Normal, a Long, and a Zoom.

Since I'm now only buying the body of the Canon 7D, I'm looking at $1699 instead of $1899. This frees up at $200 that I can spend towards lenses. I know that's not a lot, so I'm willing to go up to at least $300 to find something that is fast. (I'm going to be shooting a lot of indoors footage, and I won't always have lights... just practicals.... so a fast lens seems imperative to me).

So I was wondering if any of you can recommend some good sites where I can find len kits used. Obviously, I don't want to buy anything cheap or potentially scratched.

My goals are:

- Fast lenses. At least a 2.8, but anything even lower would be great for indoor lowlight shooting.
- Primes are my ideal... but a good fast zoom, that goes to at least 18-85mm would suffice if the price were right.
- I'd like a wide angle that goes down to at least 18mm. I'm not sure really how the Canon 7D crops images, so if anyone can shed some light on what an 18mm lens would actually equate to once it's cropped on the 7D. Then a good 50mm... and then an 85mm.

My price range is $200 - $300... but I'd spend more if the kit were right.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, as well as any helping fingers pointing in the right direction. Thanks, all!

ps
The Samdisk Extreme IV seems to the the ticket. I'd be gunning for a used 32Gb card that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.
 
Other than maybe a 50mm 1.4 and a 35mm 1.4, you aren't going to find many decent primes in your price range. Especially not fast primes.

I generally recommend new shooters to get one fast zoom until they learn the focal lengths they like for the kinds of movies they do. Some people are in LOVE with wide lenses. But they are distant, cold, and shoot faces poorly. Some like the mid-lengths. Excellent for putting 2-3 people in a frame indoors. Some love the long lenses. If you shoot a lot of 1-up or intimate 2-person stuff, this is the ticket.

If you want primes, I'd say maybe a 18-24mm for the wide, a 35mm for the mid, and a 50mm for the mid-long. Toss in an 85 to get some reach, and a 10mm later to get some real width and your golden. But if you buy all that in fast glass, you're going to triple the cost of your camera. That's just the way it is. Or you could buy something like an 18-85mm zoom, but one set of filters, and not spend a bunch of time going from lens to lens. I've done it both ways. And you'll notice how popular things like the Angeniux zooms are in Hollywood for working quickly and with minimal fuss. Especially on the steadicam or crane.

But suit yourself and enjoy your new toy.
 
It's looking like getting any sort of prime lenses that are fast (below 3.0) is going to get expensive, real quick.

So now I'm looking at getting a fast enough zoom lens. At least a 2.8. Canon's seem to be way too expensive. So the one that a friend recommended to me is the:
Sigma DC 17-70mm f/2.8- 4.5 Canon DSLR Lens 17-70 mm

On Amazon it's only $369, and it seems to have a lot of good reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-17-70mm-2-8-4-5-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000EGAMBW

Has anyone here ever used this lens? I'm close to buying this one.
 
Yeah, I've been spending a lot of time prowling through eBay today. But the price differences are never that much cheaper than buying the lenses new. And if I was buying primes, I'd want at least 3 focal lengths. So we're still getting up there in price.

I see no way to get at least 3 prime lenses used, online, for under $500. Unless they were really cheap lenses, or really slow lenses.
 
I'd also consider the Tamron 17-50mm 2.8f (remains constant throughout zoom). I have the VC version, which is a couple hundred more, but the non-VC version can be had new for about $449 I believe. It's an lens specifically made for APS-C cameras so the focal lengths aren't affected by the crop factor. Gives you a nice range on the wide side and remains sharp throughout (at least in my experience with the VC version).

By the way, VC is just Tamron's equivalent for Canon's IS feature (stabilization).

Best of luck,

Kegan
 
Hunter007 said:
It's an lens specifically made for APS-C cameras so the focal lengths aren't affected by the crop factor.
Click to expand...

Sorry to play the Crop Nazi, but I feel compelled.

A 50mm lens made for a Full Frame 35mm sensor and a 50mm lens made for an APS-C will look exactly the same in terms of field of view on the APS-C camera. The APS-C lens, however, will vignette on the Full Frame camera.

Focal length is a measure of how strongly a lens converges light. It is a property of the lens and only the lens. It is independent of the camera behind it.
 
By all means, please do.

I am curious though - I'm fairly sure most APS-C lenses will NOT work on full frame cameras. I know for a fact that some EF-S lenses that I've tried do NOT work on a 5D Mark II (I have not tried all of them, which is why I say some - it could be all).

Hm...I never thought of it that way - why is it then that a 50mm looks closer to an 85mm on a 7D (as in closer to the subject), whereas on a 5D its wider?

I'm fairly new to considering the crop factor stuff, so if you wouldn't mind trying to help me understand, that'd be appreciated. I don't want to go around giving misinformation now!

Thanks,

Kegan
 
You are correct! APS-C lenses project too small of an image to be used on FF35 cameras - it would have some pretty intense vignetting.

A 50mm looks similar to an 85mm would on FF35 because an APS-C sensor has a smaller field of view. In other words, the image is not as wide, but it is no more magnified. Because it isn't as wide, it has a tendency to appear more magnified, but it isn't. Nor does it exhibit the "flattening" effect of using a longer lens, nor the increase in Depth of Field.

Here's an example:
cropimage.jpg


As you can see, there is a lot of image lost when using the smaller sensor requiring one to recompose - step back a couple of feet. This is why an 11mm lens for the 5D would be absurdly wide, but isn't considered ridiculous for the 7D. The 7D, as a crop camera, needs wider lenses in order to achieve a wider field of view. The same is even more true of smaller sensors. RED's miniRED Primes (2/3"), for example, begin at 6mm.

So when you take a 50mm 1.2 L off of a 5D Mark II (FF) and put it on a 1D MarkIV (1.3 crop) you will simply be seeing less of the projected image because the sensor is smaller but the image circle stays the same. And if you move it to the 7D, you'll see even less of the same image! And on a 4/3" you'd see a bit less, and so on!

This is why when people say "A XXmm becomes a XXmm on the 7D" I grit my teeth. That's equivalent to saying that "Champagne becomes vodka in a shot glass". The size of the vessel doesn't change the content. You are simply drinking a smaller or larger amount of it!
 
If you want good primes that are relatively fast. At least from 50mm onward, takumars are a great lens. Very cheap on eBay compared to other glass. The 35mm and wider lenses are slower; around f3.5 I think. But 50mm 1.4, 55mm1.8(wonderful lens one ofbmy favourites) and 85mm 1.8 are far below the cost of something like a zeiss lens. I have zeiss glass and sometimes you can get deals, but overall very pricey. 6x7 takumars are awesome too, but their prices are rising. I have a 105mm 2.4 that is fantastic and I snagged it for 75bucks. Anyways I always suggest takumars to people for their first set of primes, because they have a fantastic look and feel.
 
PerroneFord said:
I generally recommend new shooters to get one fast zoom until they learn the focal lengths they like for the kinds of movies they do.
Click to expand...

I think this is very wise!

I've owned my 7D for less than a week...this is my first SLR camera. With my body, I picked up a Tamron 17-50/2.8. It's as fast as I can afford in a zoom. Sharp all the way thru the focal range, and it allows me to ZOOM! While I'm learning the intricacies of SLRs and the functionality of the movie mode, I greatly appreciate the ability to work with a narrow zoom lens.

Still, it's not really in your price range...at $600+.
 
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