A7sII over A7s?

swaneon

swaneon

Well-known member
I'm wondering if you guys would recommend using an a7sII over an a7s? Rental here is about $80 a day. Just need it for a day. But would probably need to spend more for the a7sII.
The reason why I'm considering the II is because of
slog 3 and cleaner at high ISOs (this is for a night shoot).
 
I wouldn't use SLOG3 for internal 8bit recording. I am pretty liberal when it comes to bit depth but SLOG3 is just too flat to record in 8bits and restore to normal contrast without bad side effects. Use SLOG2.

You don't need 4k or gamma display assist or HFR or IBIS? You might still want it for low light but really that's a pretty insignificant difference since it's the same sensor with slightly improved processing.

In reality I'd think if you're renting anyway, the difference in rental price is probably about $10 so you might as well go A7SII even if you might not notice the difference.
 
I wouldn't use slog3 for either internal or external recording. It doesn't give you more range, it just leaves most of the 8-bit color space unused. slog2+sgamut3.cine seems to be the way to go.

The reasons for going with the II would be:
* much improved colors
* internal 4K
* IBIS

For a rental, as nyvz said, the price will probably be very similar anyway (it's $80 to $130 on lensrentals).
 
dmitrizigany said:
Also Watch the Alister Chapman FS5 video where he explains why SLog of any flavour is a bad idea for night shots at all...
Click to expand...

Except his argument is partly misleading and the useful part still only addresses one of the several benefits of log. I would have to say that maybe for the extreme amateur his argument may be a good guideline, but for most professionals its a very small consideration that can easily be worked around and SLOG2 is still very useful in low lighting as long as you understand how it works and how to expose it in such a situation.

Though I'm mostly going on his most recent article on the matter, I don't remember the FS5 video as well.
 
Night shoots really require paying maximum attention to the blue channel on a waveform.
A general reading may not show that this channel is much more underexposed than the other two. This is why you may get blue noise in the blacks even though your general waveform or histogram says everything is exposed correctly.
Thus if you pay particular attention to it, it does not matter if you shoot in SLOG or another flavor, in fact it may even protect your highlights as you overexpose for the shadows in that channel.
 
In a lot of ways I think SLOG2 is favorable for low lighting since it allows you to distribute and balance your DR exactly as you choose and adjust your "exposure" or "midtones" to "normal" in post. In SLOG you could shoot in low light and overexpose as much as possible to minimize noise without compromising your highlights with a knee. In another gamma you are at risk of compromising the tonality of your skintones or other important detail by overexposing much with the hopes of bringing it down in post. In most non-log gammas it's much harder to maximize DR/noise performance through ETTR in low contrast or exposing for highlights in high contrast since you are stuck always exposing for your midtones that may not have much idea what your highlights and shadows are doing.
 
dmitrizigany said:
Also Watch the Alister Chapman FS5 video where he explains why SLog of any flavour is a bad idea for night shots at all...
Click to expand...

Which doesn't make sense at all. I mean... night shots feature sometimes more dynamic range than evening shots or daylight shots in shadow. During nights you can have huge highlights from streetlamps and extremely dark shadows.
 
swaneon said:
I'm wondering if you guys would recommend using an a7sII over an a7s? Rental here is about $80 a day. Just need it for a day. But would probably need to spend more for the a7sII.
The reason why I'm considering the II is because of
slog 3 and cleaner at high ISOs (this is for a night shoot).
Click to expand...

Do you need auto focus at all? I ask because I bought an A7S2 to replace my A7S and ended up returning it because for video I found the auto focus significantly worse on the A7S2.
 
Reality Studio said:
Do you need auto focus at all? I ask because I bought an A7S2 to replace my A7S and ended up returning it because for video I found the auto focus significantly worse on the A7S2.
Click to expand...

Can you explain a little bit more, please? Didn't Sony say they improved the AF system? What AF settings and lenses are you using?
 
I agree with the not using s-log during the night. You will be crushing the blacks so the extra DR will be lost anyways.

For the II, film riot did a good test for both cameras. It seems that in some situations the version 1 does a better job in low light.

 
Reality Studio said:
Do you need auto focus at all? I ask because I bought an A7S2 to replace my A7S and ended up returning it because for video I found the auto focus significantly worse on the A7S2.
Click to expand...

Can you explain a little bit more, please? Didn't Sony say they improved the AF system? What AF settings and lenses are you using?
 
Reality Studio said:
Do you need auto focus at all? I ask because I bought an A7S2 to replace my A7S and ended up returning it because for video I found the auto focus significantly worse on the A7S2.
Click to expand...

Nope. I'll be using an adapter to for use with the Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 and Sigma 50mm 1.4 Art (both nikons).

The local price here is $100 for 3 days which is very good.
I did use the a7sI before (my friend has it) and liked it but didn't do any night shots really.
If only he was back in the USA sooner :p
then I wouldn't have a problem.

The 4K is a nice feature for sure.
IBIS not so much since it'll be on sticks.
 
alex1 said:
I agree with the not using s-log during the night. You will be crushing the blacks so the extra DR will be lost anyways.

For the II, film riot did a good test for both cameras. It seems that in some situations the version 1 does a better job in low light.

Click to expand...

Nope, the A7sII like for like does better.

In this case as he rightly says the fact that you can shoot 4k internal makes the comparison void because that will always be better.

They're comparing HD internally reduced files after some post work, so unless we know the workflow used it's difficult to draw a comparison. Certainly like for like side by sided the A7s vs A7sII output (HDMI output, so no processing on it) is cleaner.

The colour science of the A7sII is also better, IMHO this means more.

cheers
Paul
 
boorye said:
Can you explain a little bit more, please? Didn't Sony say they improved the AF system? What AF settings and lenses are you using?
Click to expand...

They did say that, but it was not my experience at all for the way I shoot. I use the "large" focus square and have it on manual focus, with a button set to auto focus when I hold it. I film entirely handheld so the way I focus is I aim that large square at what I want in focus, hold my focus button down until focus is locked, let the button go thus putting it back in manual focus mode, reframe the shot, record, rinse and repeat. That works perfectly on the A7S everytime, it's fast and accurate and I can film handheld on the fly many scenes with perfect focus. On the A7S2 about half the time it couldn't find focus at all, and when it could find focus it was brutally slow taking 3+ seconds to lock on. I tested that with native Sony lenses, the 24-70 and the 24-240. I tested both cameras side by side and even swapped lenses to make sure I wasn't crazy, yet auto focus remained unusable on the A7S2 for me for my video needs. So I returned it.

But in any case the op said he doesn't need auto focus so it's moot.
 
The color is also more accurate on with the a7s II. Slog2 is the way to go for log and the CINE gammas are very good with still color mode for less grading. I really like the a7sII. If your shooting log the camera has a LUT assist to make focusing easier too and of course internal UHD isn't a bad thing either.
 
I had both and i can definitely confirm that the biggest upside of the a7sii is not the 4k, the IBIS or s-log3(which is not that good as most people noticed) - it is the new color rendition. I find a lot more pleasing and i can shoot without having to spend a lot of time color correcting. S-log2 is fantastic to work with and the major issue i had with the a7s(either a magenta or yellow cast) is mostly gone. Also the 120fps is actually usable(the a7s one was dreadful, just horrible aliasing).

All in all - yes very much worth it.
 
It won't give you 10-bit. The camera outputs 8-bit, which you'll get wrapped in a 10-bit container.
 
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