A7s - Recommendation for ND Filters

B

Birkkromann

Member
Hey,

I was wondering if any of you had a good idea of what combination of NDs to use?
So far I've come to understand that variable NDs are generally not the best solution although it is the easiest. I have only heard good things about the Hoya Pro ND filters so I have pretty much settled on these. The problem is, I don't know what strengths to get. I was thinking of a 5 stop ND as a minimum to get the picture down to a ISO 100 equivalent, but I need one or two more. I'm not sure what would be best? Maybe a 3 stop so, it stacked, would be 8 stops and be helpful in sunlight?

What are your thoughts?
 
I have 2, 4, 6, 9

Works for me. With wider lenses stacking ND could cause vignetting. Just get these four and your set.
 
What's wrong with variable ND? I have the TIffen Variable ND and it seems to work well. It may not go to the full "8 stops" that it says before that "X" starts to show, but what is the downsides of that vs. getting a 2, 4, and 6 separately?
 
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The usual recommendation, as per Kholi's extensive tests, are the Hoya ProND filters. I don't own them yet but I have already decided I'll buy a set when I have my a7s and know which ones I'll need most (probably something along the lines of what Erik Said)

About variable ND filters, and why they are not that great, in general:
* they usually have some color cast
* they usually introduce at least some softness
* at least some of them will create extreme softness with long lenses (my test with the LCW Fader ND mk2 is here, in case you're wondering whether "extreme" is appropriate)
* it's two polarizers set together, so you get a polarizing effect; this will usually kill specular reflections in skin, which can make people look like dolls ("plasticky" look)
 
From the tests I've seen variable NDs has quite a lot of colour shift due to IR pollution. You have the X problem and the fact the supposedly best (Heliopan) are the same price as 5 top class ND filters (Hoya Pro ND)

Erik, what if I only have money for two to start with? In what order would you buy these four?
 
If I could only buy two, it would probably be 3+6, then I would stack them when I need to shoot in sunlight at f/2.8 1/50s ISO 800 (aka ISO 3200 overexposed by two stops). I need to play with the a7s to be sure, though: ISO ratings should mean the same in all cameras but they often don't.
 
The HolyManta VND E>EF adapter is cheap enough that I would pick one up. Handy to have a rear mounted variable ND (that can be flipped out of the way) inside an EF lens adapter.

It would be nice if the VND was swappable, but it isn't as far as I know.
 
Birkkromann said:
From the tests I've seen variable NDs has quite a lot of colour shift due to IR pollution. You have the X problem and the fact the supposedly best (Heliopan) are the same price as 5 top class ND filters (Hoya Pro ND)

Erik, what if I only have money for two to start with? In what order would you buy these four?
Click to expand...

I would get 2 and 4 and if you need 6 stack them. I have the PROND200. Its 7 2/3 stops. I like to open up the lens outside.
Most ENG cameras or cameras with built in ND have 2,4,6 so it's a proven set.

If you plan on shooting Slog2 outdoors you will need a 9 stop sometimes on a bright day and wide open.
 
I have extensively tested ND filters and Variable ND. I live in LA, so it's easy to find anything and I went around one day and tested 6 different brands of variable ND filters. My conclusion, all variable ND filters that I tested including Hoya, Light craft, Tiffen, Kenko (very expensive), Heliopan (I own and expensive) all have a green cast which kind of sucks. Fairly easy to fix in post, but not ideal. Besides the very expensive Kenko and Heliopan, they all had loss of sharpness as well.

Frank Glencarn did test the Genus Eclipse and he said that one has no loss of sharpness and has a warm cast instead of green cast, so maybe get that as warm is better than green IMO.

One thing that variable NDs do is they drastically reduce the specular highlights on skin tones, so people tend to look more pasty.

So yeah, while they are convenient, variable NDs have lots of drawbacks (pasty skin, green tint and loss of sharpness on most brands except Genus Eclipse, Heliopan and Kenko).

As for NON-Variable ND filters, the cheaper Tiffens SUCK. They have a pronounced green cast.

The best ones that were reasonably priced were the Hoya Pro line. No green cast and sharp. I have Hoyas in 1, 2, 4 and 6 stops.
 
I did some testing with the Tiffen Variable. Here is the post.

Due to color shifts I decided to go with HOYA PROND. No shift. If you use variables make sure to white balance with the filter on and again when you take it off. Thats the only way to avoid a lot of color correcting later.
 
atarijedi said:
The HolyManta VND E>EF adapter is cheap enough that I would pick one up. Handy to have a rear mounted variable ND (that can be flipped out of the way) inside an EF lens adapter.

It would be nice if the VND was swappable, but it isn't as far as I know.
Click to expand...

Would be great if HolyManta could come up with swappable fixed ND modules, or better yet some kind of mechanism for you to fit your own ND's. I can't imagine it being a very hard engineering feat, but the guy probably lacks enough of a market.
 
aly324 said:
Would be great if HolyManta could come up with swappable fixed ND modules, or better yet some kind of mechanism for you to fit your own ND's. I can't imagine it being a very hard engineering feat, but the guy probably lacks enough of a market.
Click to expand...

Yeah, or just fitting any kind of filter would be cool.
 
Just got the Fotodiox Vizelex vari ND. It's inside a EF to E mount adapter. Gonna test it out with my C/Y lenses to see if there's any color shift. The only drawback so far is the fact that you have to switch lenses or adapters if you don't want the ND. It's a clever idea.
 
This thread alone just made me return all 3 of my Tiffen Variable ND filters today and purchase 3 Hoya ProND (4 stop) filters instead. (I have 3 A7s cameras all with the same "main" lens on each for event shooting). Hope I made the right choice. :)
 
I'm looking at this question too. My concern w/the VariND's is the green cast. Considering the Sony has it to begin with it seems using a VariND that adds more green could problematic.
 
I have been using the Fotodix Vizelex Vari ND for about a week and a half and it works great. I also use it as away to control aperture on my Canon lenses, I have not noticed any color shifting.
 
gene_can_sing said:
I have extensively tested ND filters and Variable ND. I live in LA, so it's easy to find anything and I went around one day and tested 6 different brands of variable ND filters. My conclusion, all variable ND filters that I tested including Hoya, Light craft, Tiffen, Kenko (very expensive), Heliopan (I own and expensive) all have a green cast which kind of sucks. Fairly easy to fix in post, but not ideal. Besides the very expensive Kenko and Heliopan, they all had loss of sharpness as well.

Frank Glencarn did test the Genus Eclipse and he said that one has no loss of sharpness and has a warm cast instead of green cast, so maybe get that as warm is better than green IMO.

One thing that variable NDs do is they drastically reduce the specular highlights on skin tones, so people tend to look more pasty.

So yeah, while they are convenient, variable NDs have lots of drawbacks (pasty skin, green tint and loss of sharpness on most brands except Genus Eclipse, Heliopan and Kenko).

As for NON-Variable ND filters, the cheaper Tiffens SUCK. They have a pronounced green cast.

The best ones that were reasonably priced were the Hoya Pro line. No green cast and sharp. I have Hoyas in 1, 2, 4 and 6 stops.
Click to expand...

Question for you all:

I've been using the Tiffen Variable ND filter for a few weeks now. It works well but I haven't really stopped to "test" it. I've just been up and running with it in run n' gun situations when I need it. I did notice that there's kind of a "hazy" feel to things when it's on. It's clean for sure but I just wanted to know if that's one of the side effects of a variable ND like this? I planned to return it and get a 4stop Hoya ProND filter instead. But will that have the same "haze" feel when it's on? I do have a Hoya UV Haze NXT HMC filter on each camera as well. When I take the Tiffen variable ND off and just leave the UV on, things look great. But with it on I feel like there's this slightly hazy feel to things. If there's a color change I don't really notice but then again I'm running and gunning and I figure I can color correct later if needed. But I can't exactly remove haze later. Just curious if this is normal for this Variable ND and if the Hoya ProND line will not have this issue??
 
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