A7RIi vs A7SII - going crazy, cannot choose
- Thread starter alohype
- Start date
Then I would think that the in-camera compressed Raw is the next step in the (lower) pro tier development.
Today, a Zeiss product manager said that Sony A-series is trying to get a hold on the pro market (and, thus, a whole bunch of new Zeiss glass is needed). IMO, they're waiting for the CFast 2.0 prices to drop from its current ~ $3/GB level. The next mini-cycle - 2016-17 - there should be more models with both the CFast and the internal compressed Raw aside of BMD URSA.
Today, a Zeiss product manager said that Sony A-series is trying to get a hold on the pro market (and, thus, a whole bunch of new Zeiss glass is needed). IMO, they're waiting for the CFast 2.0 prices to drop from its current ~ $3/GB level. The next mini-cycle - 2016-17 - there should be more models with both the CFast and the internal compressed Raw aside of BMD URSA.
paulcurtis
Veteran
IHMO I think RAW is inevitable at some point. I don't think that point is technical either, i suspect it's more to do with market forces and competition.
If Sony are looking into a compressed RAW codec then that's a fantastic step.
We have to remember that we're obsessive about our images in a way that most of the market isn't. I'm still aware of photographers shooting JPEGs, not RAW. And so the vast majority of the market would struggle with cinemaDNG files. But an end to end raw codec solution is something that Sony may feel more comfortable delivering to the mass market...
cheers
Paul
If Sony are looking into a compressed RAW codec then that's a fantastic step.
We have to remember that we're obsessive about our images in a way that most of the market isn't. I'm still aware of photographers shooting JPEGs, not RAW. And so the vast majority of the market would struggle with cinemaDNG files. But an end to end raw codec solution is something that Sony may feel more comfortable delivering to the mass market...
cheers
Paul
CinemaDNG is open source, is it not (i.e, Adobe doesn't stand in the way of anyone incorporating it into their workflow)?
To me, Sony's problem is with their processing/encoding that seems to be lagging behind. If Samsung can take a 6.5k readout of its sensor at 240fps, get a nice 4k image without overheating AND shoot 15fps, they seem to be ahead of where Sony is at the moment. I get crop cameras have advantages in this realm. But the buffer from one shot on the A7rII can take a couple seconds to clear. One stinkin shot grinds the camera to a halt. Write speeds on the A7rII are painfully slow, about 36 MB/s. Something that could take advantage of faster cards and has more efficient encoding would be a big step forward. It really blows that expensive U3 cards are required for the max bitrate video, and all the extra write speed we're paying for is completely wasted on the camera since it can't take advantage of the speed. The A99 is no speed demon either.
This is why I hope the NikSung rumors are true, get the best of both worlds - a user friendly camera with a massive lens lineup that produces top class leading stills and video.
You might want to take a look at these two articles:
http://nikonrumors.com/2015/12/03/s...n-buying-their-nx-mirrorless-technology.aspx/
http://nikonrumors.com/2015/12/07/n...out-purchasing-samsungs-camera-division.aspx/
NorBro
Major Contributor
A person in this business that helped create a successful camera once mentioned to me that we will one day look back at compressed capture from these digital cameras and think about how it was just a weird phase in digital technology. I believe his opinion was that all [video] cameras will be shooting RAW in the near future...and maybe any other options will be a second thought. I think more of a, "...and we have these compressed options too if you really need them."
Paul schefz
Well-known member
sony is working on a raw format right now....it will be a XAVC based raw format, compressed raw like red raw or compressed DNG...
Care to share a link?
It certainly won't be consumer version of the codec, as XAVC-S is just a proprietary profile of H.264.
Well, Samsung didn't have a higher end of the line to protect (and now, they've got no high end and no low end).
But, IMO, D5 - which is where all the signs are pointing - will be a spec monster. I mean, if Samsung and Nikon are going to the dance together, they may as well make the opening number count.
PS. I expect Sony to replace their entire cinema (F5/55/65) soon, which means that Sony has to be very careful not to cannibalize own sales with so many SKU's. The double-the-price principle that has worked well so far will run into problems if there are too many models in the lineup. Right now, they have $3,000-$3,200, $5,500, $8,000, ~ $16,000, $28,000 and ~ $60,000.
True Samsung didn't have anything above the NX1, but I've used the d750, 5d3 and the NX1, they were all faster writing to the card than the A7rII. Sony went cheap and didn't upgrade the write capabilities of the A7rII to UHS-II. My a5100 has the same write speed as the A7rII, and its obvious when shooting since the smaller files clear the buffer much faster. Hell, the $900 EM5mkII can easily write at twice the speed of the A7rII. This is one of the biggest shortcomings of the camera IMO, but I'm sure in another year the A7rIII will be faster.
I get all the write speeds here: http://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/
starcentral
Veteran
Given the huge cost, burden, and time lag to get a new line of products to market there's no way it's in Sony's interest to replace the F-series lineup. It's far cheaper for them to continue to expand the camera's with software at this point and give the public impression they listen to feedback and keep evolving their camera. That's clever marketing, not bringing out new camera's in my opinion.
I think those reports are accurate, IMO Samsung's camera division is of little worth to Nikon since the NX mount doesn't look like it can support FF and it would take a half-assed solution to adapt Nikon lenses. It makes more sense to have a system built from the ground up to integrate seamlessly. Sony has demonstrated that there's truckloads of cash to be made with FF mirrorless. But I do think its a real possibility that Nikon will start using Samsung sensors and processors starting with the D5, and that we will see a large sensor mirrorless camera from Nikon with a new shallower mount that's built around a seamless adapting of F-mount lenses.
Remember, a lot of the R&D costs involved here are spread over pretty much the entire "pro" lineup, even as it is introduced in its various iterations.
Second, one has to take the competition into account. Whatever one thinks of that "Carrion" video, the $10,000-12,000 Red Raven is coming in below F5 and will steal some sales off both that and FS-7. C300 MKII is doing well already. Then there's the long-rumored C500 MKII that might/should be announced at the NAB'16. On specs, it should beat the pants off F-55. Then there are the expected sub-$10,000 1D X MKII and D5. And all Sony has is three aging models to compete against them. And Sony doesn't want to take the backseat to anyone in the tech game. It wants to be the leader of the pack. (enough cliches already?) In other words, much like in the D5 project under the Nikon-Samsung alliance, Sony wants to take a huge leap forward in its pro line and I think it will soon.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-a7sii-gest-dxomarked/
These tests really don't mean much to me, but it is interesting that the a7sii dxo'd lower than the mk I.
I guess it depends on how you define "well". I've gotten repeated calls from multiple vendors trying to offload their inventory and there isn't a waiting list anywhere in the Boston, NY, LA area(INCLUDING big box outlets). The "aging" f5 STILL has a few legs up on the c300 mk ii in many areas. The c500 mk ii doesn't technically exist therefore it isn't beating the pants off of anything & Canon's track record in high-end cinema is virtually non-existent.
What sony has accomplished over the last 2-3 years is impressive(coming from a Canon guy), and aside from the Arri & RED pro/niche markets, Sony has maintained a substantial lead over the pack on every front from mirrorless to camcorders, broadcast and cinema. The only place they seem to be losing out on is professional sports/wildlife & action camera markets(which I don't think is a top priority for them at the moment).
True enough their shelf life is aging(especially for Sony), but holding such a substantial lead I see no reason for them to replace anything in their lineup. I do think they will refine & polish existing technology though(bugs, variable nd, UI design, compressed raw, more fps, improve ergonomics & form factor, bit depth, etc).
These tests really don't mean much to me, but it is interesting that the a7sii dxo'd lower than the mk I.
I guess it depends on how you define "well". I've gotten repeated calls from multiple vendors trying to offload their inventory and there isn't a waiting list anywhere in the Boston, NY, LA area(INCLUDING big box outlets). The "aging" f5 STILL has a few legs up on the c300 mk ii in many areas. The c500 mk ii doesn't technically exist therefore it isn't beating the pants off of anything & Canon's track record in high-end cinema is virtually non-existent.
What sony has accomplished over the last 2-3 years is impressive(coming from a Canon guy), and aside from the Arri & RED pro/niche markets, Sony has maintained a substantial lead over the pack on every front from mirrorless to camcorders, broadcast and cinema. The only place they seem to be losing out on is professional sports/wildlife & action camera markets(which I don't think is a top priority for them at the moment).
True enough their shelf life is aging(especially for Sony), but holding such a substantial lead I see no reason for them to replace anything in their lineup. I do think they will refine & polish existing technology though(bugs, variable nd, UI design, compressed raw, more fps, improve ergonomics & form factor, bit depth, etc).
What's interesting is that they rate A7RII higher on the ISO. Hypothetically, BSI on the large pixel sensor such as as on the A7s series would add a couple of stops too.
It's moving units. We'll see how it ranks after a few (well known) people had publicized their positive experiences with it.
Oh and, by the way, you buried the lede!
Off the same Sony Alpha Rumors site -- the rumor of a high end hybrid camera, aka A99 MKII.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-the-new-high-end-camera-is-the-a99-replacement/
To me, this also makes sense. January, 5th is the official Sony CES presentation. Nikon/Samsung D5 is rumored to be revealed around that time. Canon 1D X MKII is also a possibility (maybe a later announcement at CP+ in February). And Sony ain't leaving the market to those two.
starcentral
Veteran
Ok so in summary what's the final verdict? R or S mark ii ?
For someone with F55, probably SII for the low light. As a stand-alone stills-video hybrid, RII is hard to beat ... unless you want to wait a month and see what the CES brings.
From the financial point of view, I'd think RII will hold a higher resale value over SII.
If low light is a necessity, sii but the Rii is a low light monster as well! The announcements @ ces will likely be for an a-mount camera(much less versatile than e-mount). Either of the mirrorless cameras are valuable additions to the F series operators though.
Recent still from the rII:
The highlight/shadow recovery from the raw stills have to be seen firsthand, really is next generation tech.