govindaBLU
Member
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Last edited:
a workflow option?
- Thread starter govindaBLU
- Start date
I don't think you can hook it up to diff pc's or mac's unless the enclosure has a built-in hardware raid controller.
Red plans on eventually making their own RED-RAID for capturing straight from the high-speed data port. No specs have been released and it is low on their list of priorities as far as I know. I have a feeling they would probably charge a lot more then a regular SATA enclosure.
Red plans on eventually making their own RED-RAID for capturing straight from the high-speed data port. No specs have been released and it is low on their list of priorities as far as I know. I have a feeling they would probably charge a lot more then a regular SATA enclosure.
alacritymedia
Active member
On Set RAID?
On Set RAID?
Until we know what pipe the RedOne will support for connection to off camera storage solutions we can only speculate what might work. The Red Team has talked about Infiniband and lately even 10G Ethernet and last I remember they were revisiting the whole issue hoping to nail down a spec by years end at the latest. Hopefully Rob or someone else on the Red Team will jump in on this thread and give us a necessarily vague characterization of how soon they hope to release a specification for the main data port. Keep in mind that they have been showing a configuration that looks like a modular/upgradable port connector. I have no inside information but it seems likely that they are trying to avoid becoming wedded to any particular topology by using this "adapter" that attaches to a port on the side of the RedOne and feeds out some industry standard (IT industry, not video or film, that's what the HD-SDI and HDMI are for) data stream like Infiniband, quad FC, 10G Ethernet, etc.
I have spent many hours trying to solve this riddle myself and figured the best way to start was by overengineering the storage solution. While very fast read/write and high capacity means higher cost I like the warm secure feeling I get with plenty of headroom in my spec. Ciprio (sp?) makes an interesting product based on the smaller laptop type 2.5" drives that looks like an excellent off-the-shelf solution but the cost may be too high for indies. I spent most of my time at DV Expo ignoring the video gear vendors and chatting up the storage guys about dual controller RAIDs, max write speeds, etc looking for more commodity priced solutions. My plan is to either modify a Magliner, or, just use a road case with wheels and rack rails to create a mobile RAID solution for on set use. I am looking at the newer Apple X-server as the brains with maybe an Atto SAS card driving 2 RAIDs, each with 5 to 12 drives, probably level 3 maybe 6. If the hardware can support it I would like to make two identical copies on the fly for more security. It is my belief that in order to calm the guys paying the bills you need as close to bulletproof topologies as you can manage. For indies port multiplied SATA solutions might work but, while I am not an IT engineer, it seems risky considering the estimated 300MB/sec+ requirement for uncompressed. IMHO if you cannot afford a robust on set RAID then shoot in RedCode to the RedDrive(s) and transfer the data to far cheaper commodity hardware later.
Blair S. Paulsen
RedOne #19
On Set RAID?
Until we know what pipe the RedOne will support for connection to off camera storage solutions we can only speculate what might work. The Red Team has talked about Infiniband and lately even 10G Ethernet and last I remember they were revisiting the whole issue hoping to nail down a spec by years end at the latest. Hopefully Rob or someone else on the Red Team will jump in on this thread and give us a necessarily vague characterization of how soon they hope to release a specification for the main data port. Keep in mind that they have been showing a configuration that looks like a modular/upgradable port connector. I have no inside information but it seems likely that they are trying to avoid becoming wedded to any particular topology by using this "adapter" that attaches to a port on the side of the RedOne and feeds out some industry standard (IT industry, not video or film, that's what the HD-SDI and HDMI are for) data stream like Infiniband, quad FC, 10G Ethernet, etc.
I have spent many hours trying to solve this riddle myself and figured the best way to start was by overengineering the storage solution. While very fast read/write and high capacity means higher cost I like the warm secure feeling I get with plenty of headroom in my spec. Ciprio (sp?) makes an interesting product based on the smaller laptop type 2.5" drives that looks like an excellent off-the-shelf solution but the cost may be too high for indies. I spent most of my time at DV Expo ignoring the video gear vendors and chatting up the storage guys about dual controller RAIDs, max write speeds, etc looking for more commodity priced solutions. My plan is to either modify a Magliner, or, just use a road case with wheels and rack rails to create a mobile RAID solution for on set use. I am looking at the newer Apple X-server as the brains with maybe an Atto SAS card driving 2 RAIDs, each with 5 to 12 drives, probably level 3 maybe 6. If the hardware can support it I would like to make two identical copies on the fly for more security. It is my belief that in order to calm the guys paying the bills you need as close to bulletproof topologies as you can manage. For indies port multiplied SATA solutions might work but, while I am not an IT engineer, it seems risky considering the estimated 300MB/sec+ requirement for uncompressed. IMHO if you cannot afford a robust on set RAID then shoot in RedCode to the RedDrive(s) and transfer the data to far cheaper commodity hardware later.
Blair S. Paulsen
RedOne #19
Most external SATA 5 bay arrays don't have RAID hardware controllers, but why couldn't you use a powermac or macpro tower's software raid option? I don't see any bottlenecks in the workflow, its all done by SATA, which is at least 1.5gbit/sec. If you can't use the eSATA out from the Red, you could use a blackmagic/AJA capture card and go HD-SDI. I couldn't imagine anything below 2k that you couldn't catch with that setup.
And considering REDCODE RAW has an estimated data rate of 18Mbs, you could shoot all day.
-John
RED #613
www.myspace.com/ShootRed
If only this thing came out when I was in filmschool
And considering REDCODE RAW has an estimated data rate of 18Mbs, you could shoot all day.
-John
RED #613
www.myspace.com/ShootRed
If only this thing came out when I was in filmschool
Chris Kenny
Well-known member
70mmDV said:
Well, you're not going to get REDCODE RAW over HD-SDI, you're going to get uncompressed RGB. And I seriously doubt a computer will be able to compress to REDCODE in real-time.
And as for the SATA output... how are you going to ingest into a computer via SATA? You'd have to have some kind of card with a SATA port that, used in conjunction with the right software, emulated a SATA drive. I've never heard of anything like that. If RED stuck a Firewire port on the camera ingesting directly into a computer would be more plausible.
Your right, my mistake. But couldn't you shoot in a lesser data rate, like 1080p, and capture via HDSDI onto the Sata RAID? These things have sustained write speeds usually above 150Mbs, easily enough for the lesser data rates. You don't have to shoot uncompressed, especially because 90% of users will never need anything CLOSE to 4k res.
-John
RED #613
www.myspace.com/ShootRed
If only this thing came out when I was in filmschool
-John
RED #613
www.myspace.com/ShootRed
If only this thing came out when I was in filmschool
Stuart English
Red Team
RAW data management
RAW data management
The RAW Data Port will be based around IT industry standards, however this configuration's affordability and mobility will center on what do you need to buy to store 323MB/s (or higher) of uncompressed data? So for the majority of users, the ability to record visually lossless REDCODE RAW or REDCODE RGB to one of our Digital Magazines, then clone that data via USB-2 or Firewire 800 (or perhaps eSATA) to less specialized storage for post production, offers a very flexible and cost effective workflow.
RAW data management
The RAW Data Port will be based around IT industry standards, however this configuration's affordability and mobility will center on what do you need to buy to store 323MB/s (or higher) of uncompressed data? So for the majority of users, the ability to record visually lossless REDCODE RAW or REDCODE RGB to one of our Digital Magazines, then clone that data via USB-2 or Firewire 800 (or perhaps eSATA) to less specialized storage for post production, offers a very flexible and cost effective workflow.
Chris Kenny
Well-known member
Stuart English said:
Any chance of the digital magazines supporting direct cloning to generic hard drives (or other digital mags) without a computer in the loop? It's not a huge deal to have a laptop on set to do these sorts of transfers, I guess, but it seems to me if the digital mags already have a bit of intelligence in them (do they?), supporting this would just require a bit of extra code in the firmware.
I'm also curious about the power situation for digital mags. When they're on the camera, I'm assuming they're powered over your 'pro' connector, and there's a power adaptor for powering them the rest of the time. If they could also be powered over Firewire, that would be very convenient.
mike the beginner
Well-known member
Great post Chris
It would certainly save buying more red drives than neccessary. The other alternative of having to carry a laptop about is a no-go for me, but carrying several hard drives is an option that sounds much better for transferring footage. I understand the red drive IS more than just a hard drive in an enclosure. Michael
Stuart English
Red Team
Red-drive
Red-drive
RED-DRIVE would not be able to perform cloning to other standard IT storage without the use of a laptop or other intelligent device in-between. If you can't take a laptop with you in the field, you'll need to take multiple RED DRIVES and clone the data later. RED-DRIVE is intended to directly mount to your computer using standard USB-2 or Firewire (400 or 800) cables.
Red-drive
RED-DRIVE would not be able to perform cloning to other standard IT storage without the use of a laptop or other intelligent device in-between. If you can't take a laptop with you in the field, you'll need to take multiple RED DRIVES and clone the data later. RED-DRIVE is intended to directly mount to your computer using standard USB-2 or Firewire (400 or 800) cables.
mike the beginner
Well-known member
Red-drive
RED-DRIVE would not be able to perform cloning to other standard IT storage without the use of a laptop or other intelligent device in-between. If you can't take a laptop with you in the field, you'll need to take multiple RED DRIVES and clone the data later. RED-DRIVE is intended to directly mount to your computer using standard USB-2 or Firewire (400 or 800) cables.
Stuart English
RED Workflow Wizard
Stuart thanks for that. Thought that would be the case.
I presume that the pre-record facility will only be with the red flash! Therefore will it be possible to transfer the footage captured from red flash on to red drive in camera. The reason i ask is that when waiting for something to happen while on standby pre-record you avoid a lot of wasted footage. But once that footage is captured on the red flash i would like to transfer it over to red drive.
I am presuming that red flash will not be so cheap for storage compared to a large red drive and it would save money if i could transfer footage from red flash to red drive and then delete the red flash footage if it became full whilst out filming.
Michael