F3: A tough one... Amira or F3/FS7

+1 LeoGrey! Not to mention, he'll need a 1st and 2nd AC and media manager on the crew to haul the Arri's around and keep up with the data. This is a thread that needs to be on the Arri board with an Arri vs Red subject line. The FS7 was never designed to be in this league. Wasting out time here...
 
LeoGrey said:
If I were in your shoes, I would stop typing, analyze the project/situations in which I would most find myself shooting in(low light, foreign countries, size, image quality, hand held use), compare those results with my budget and make a couple of trips down to your local renter to spend long amounts of time testing the equipment.

There is not many situations in which it would benefit someone to choose an fs7 over the amira outside of cost, or using it as a crash cam. Outside of DSLR's, as long as you know what your doing most of these cinema bodies(fs7, fs700, c300, f3, amira, epic, etc) are relatively similar in setup for reliable run'n gun shooting. Those that are saying the fs7 is "good enough" are the folks you would probably do best to avoid listening too. Class leading equipment is priced accordingly for a reason, and so was the fs7.

There really is no comparison if your workload/income can legitimately cover the budget for a professional cinema camera.
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Right on :thumbsup:
Considering the financial investment involved, it's almost imperative to rent first to see if it satisfies the need. $60K is a pretty big mistake, if one can do it for less.
 
LeoGrey said:
If I were in your shoes, I would stop typing, analyze the project/situations in which I would most find myself shooting in(low light, foreign countries, size, image quality, hand held use), compare those results with my budget and make a couple of trips down to your local renter to spend long amounts of time testing the equipment.

There is not many situations in which it would benefit someone to choose an fs7 over the amira outside of cost, or using it as a crash cam. Outside of DSLR's, as long as you know what your doing most of these cinema bodies(fs7, fs700, c300, f3, amira, epic, etc) are relatively similar in setup for reliable run'n gun shooting. Those that are saying the fs7 is "good enough" are the folks you would probably do best to avoid listening too. Class leading equipment is priced accordingly for a reason, and so was the fs7.

There really is no comparison if your workload/income can legitimately cover the budget for a professional cinema camera.
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I dont know how to break it for you but there is definatly such a thing as "good enough" it depends what you need. For many jobs my c100 with avchd converted to prorez was plenty. I shot two one hour docs in China with the f55 as a main camera and an A7s as a b cam. In the end 70percent of the aired footage was coming from the A7s because it was the best camera for that situation. Would I like to have an arri? Sure. Would I pick it over the fs7 or a7s only in 30 percent of the cases.
 
This thread could be named $40K+ or $8K/$5K. The comparison doesn't make sense to me. There's no basis. In what world, in what work space, do these cameras overlap or co-exist in potential value to a project?
 
hscully said:
This thread could be named $40K+ or $8K/$5K. The comparison doesn't make sense to me. There's no basis. In what world, in what work space, do these cameras overlap or co-exist in potential value to a project?
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Ive been trying to figure that out myself. Anyone I ever worked for and got paid wanted the best the budget could afford. No one ever said "well the A7s is good enough" "see if the FS7 is available instead of the Arri". My point being if there's a choice in your budget for an Arri why would ever consider the Fs7 or A7s? Go for the F5, F55 or any Red for that matter, though personally for me I'd go with the Amira and I'd rent it.
 
Marino215 said:
Ive been trying to figure that out myself. Anyone I ever worked for and got paid wanted the best the budget could afford. No one ever said "well the A7s is good enough" "see if the FS7 is available instead of the Arri". My point being if there's a choice in your budget for an Arri why would ever consider the Fs7 or A7s? Go for the F5, F55 or any Red for that matter, though personally for me I'd go with the Amira and I'd rent it.
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The above is exactly correct, but with certain exclusions. Sometimes the A7s is the better camera for a specific job or film than any of the big cameras. The same could be said of the FS7 or even a GoPro. It all depends on the requirements of each job. If image quality is the only concern no one is going to argue against the top end dogs being 100% supreme. I like choice. It's nice.
 
The more I'm looking at stuff on the internets - my bet is Ursa Mini will cost around 7k and have an image about 90% as similar to the Alexa Mini, which will be around 40k.
 
There's definitely a transformation happening at Arri, I think a fresh new line is eminent. Fairchild makes the BM sensor and the Alexa although very different, I wouldn't be surprised if they shared the same chararacteristics. Why would Arri care? Their new sensor will be that much better. I am guessing of course but my God we really live in the age of what you got yesterday is better and cheaper today.
 
Another way of looking at it is ROI. Are your clients willing to pay 3x more for the use of the Amira over the FS7?
 
In terms of the FS7 looking good - well I got it when it came out, have mostly shot 1080 and never lit anything properly yet or actually sat down and really had a poke in Resolve. I probably represent the typical FS7 owner.

My observations are, however.. it looks good up to 60p.

So if I were tooling up one would have to consider why one would not want to use it on a project.

Reasons to get an Arri.

-sharp above 60p
-solid mount to PL lenses
-connectivity?
-client cache

But the question Ari, or FS7 is not a dumb one.

I come from stills and there was a crossover point - in the early days the digibacks from exotic 'indy' makers (hassy, phase) had clear advantages if you had the cash, today those reasons are mainly gone as canikon have caught up at 25% of the price. A crossover will come in video at all but the highest level.
I sold my Hassy kit with 95% depreciation :)

S
 
Interesting thread. Here I go;

Amira = expensive, not sure what the point of it would be on a doc with run and gun, etc.. it's a doc not the next James Bond movie. ARRI for doc really?

F3 = nuclear colored footage you will slit your wrists trying to fix unless you find someone experienced to do it for you.

F5/F55 = good, but too expensive compared to FS7.

FS7 = clear winner in price factoring in the quirks and compromises. Buy 2.


ok flame away, I can take it.

:violent5:
 
starcentral said:
Interesting thread. Here I go;

Amira = expensive, not sure what the point of it would be on a doc with run and gun, etc.. it's a doc not the next James Bond movie. ARRI for doc really?

F3 = nuclear colored footage you will slit your wrists trying to fix unless you find someone experienced to do it for you.

F5/F55 = good, but too expensive compared to FS7.

FS7 = clear winner in price factoring in the quirks and compromises. Buy 2.


ok flame away, I can take it.

:violent5:
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No flaming here. I went from the VX1000 to the HVX200 to the AF100 to the FS700 to the FS7. With this one, I'm finally at a point where, for my level of work (micro budget features), I've got the camera I can stay with a while. Regardless of whether the camera companies start proclaiming you must have 12K and 28 stops of DR or you are nothing.
 
Hey gang, I am torn between buying a Scion FR-S and a Porsche 911 GT3RS. Which would should I buy?
 
mainstreetprod said:
No flaming here. I went from the VX1000 to the HVX200 to the AF100 to the FS700 to the FS7. With this one, I'm finally at a point where, for my level of work (micro budget features), I've got the camera I can stay with a while. Regardless of whether the camera companies start proclaiming you must have 12K and 28 stops of DR or you are nothing.
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VX1000 was my first real camera too. $5000 it cost, then went all the way up to $16k for Canon XL with PS Technik mini adapter shooting with effective 60ISO. But I got "film look" sort of.

Things are real good right now and most people don't even know it.
 
JPNola said:
Hey gang, I am torn between buying a Scion FR-S and a Porsche 911 GT3RS. Which would should I buy?
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Buy a used Cayman, then get a custom turbo job.

A turbocharged FR-S will get you half way there for half the price.

Personally, I would prefer a driver and a new Maybach ... I mean, Amira ... hey, if one can swing it, why not.
 
The car analogy is good - porsche - whatever - the average hot hatch is fast enough to kill you - the average FS7 is enough to make pretty pictures - pretty much the rest is the driver.
 
morgan_moore said:
The car analogy is good - porsche - whatever - the average hot hatch is fast enough to kill you - the average FS7 is enough to make pretty pictures - pretty much the rest is the driver.
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Agreed! Driving your car to win = time investment. I don't care much for show n' shines.
 
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