A plea to Panasonic....Please read and add your name if you agree.

Mike Harvey said:
That tells me that a PX270 with the lens lopped off, with a 4k m4/3 sensor and the AVC-Ultra family of codecs, could easily fetch $5k-$6k and still be a relative bargain for what it is.
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It is only a bargain if the image is what you are looking for as the market found out with the AF-100. Sure, a lot of people here purchased and defended the AF-100, but a lot of the same folks have moved on once better options surfaced. Just pointing out that in this era, it can't just be in existence, it needs to knock it out of the park to be a success.
 
Bassman2003 said:
It is only a bargain if the image is what you are looking for as the market found out with the AF-100. Sure, a lot of people here purchased and defended the AF-100, but a lot of the same folks have moved on once better options surfaced. Just pointing out that in this era, it can't just be in existence, it needs to knock it out of the park to be a success.
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The reality is that there really is no competition for a camera like the AF100a/C100/FS100 in the $5,000 market....

So either we are looking at the death of this type of camera, making the most of existing models and after that - doomed to frankenrigged DSLRS and boxes with sensors in them - or somebody will make an update and those seeking a fully functional S35(ish) camera will buy them up.
 
I'm still interested in broadcast spec'd m4/3 with proper motion camera form factor in the sub-$10k price category.

Doesn't need to have Raw but must shoot at least 10-bit 4:2:2 in-camera & have all the features (& more) of the AF100.

Picked up a GH4 yesterday & it feels like a baby AF200. Silly of Panasonic not to build on this success.
 
freezeframereality said:
And a proper form factor.

Put the GH4 into the housing of my AF100 and I'll take two.
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I dunno... Theoretically I would agree with you except I've owned and shot with an AF100, GH3 and 5D3 and without an external rig could hand hold each camera and get similar results. In fact the AF100 didn't have the greatest form factor for hand holding. It wasn't a shoulder mount camera but sat awkwardly in the hand and put a lot of weight on the wrist.
 
Steve Kahn said:
I dunno... Theoretically I would agree with you except I've owned and shot with an AF100, GH3 and 5D3 and without an external rig could hand hold each camera and get similar results. In fact the AF100 didn't have the greatest form factor for hand holding. It wasn't a shoulder mount camera but sat awkwardly in the hand and put a lot of weight on the wrist.
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Plenty of truth there, the AF body needs minor tweaking to hold properly - simply having a handle capable of moving further forward is almost all it needs, like the Westside AV handle solution or my own (toot toot). Adding in a good viewfinder/LCD mounted forward at handle height (like the PX270) so you can just lean the mass on your shoulder and roll on, it can work very well

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/attachment.php?attachmentid=80476&d=1388433193
 
I had a GH2 and did not like shooting video with it except surreptitious shots. I never rigged it out for shooting seriously though. Hand holding the AF100 alone isn't the best bargain but with the Redrock rig it's fine with the offset shoulder mount I can still use the EVF from the AF100 which I think is very good, B&W with FA. I can also use the rails and pull focus using a FF. The waveform monitor is invaluable and the LCD is very good - of course the NDs (oddly missing from the new AJA Cion) The ability to dive into the picture settings I understand has improved on the GH4. I like the buttons. I just like being able to access things on the camera body and not have to dive into menus. I find DSLRs too small and fiddly but I've seen some great stuff shot on the GHs and the Canons too. It's just not for me.

I would have hoped that an AF200 would have taken a page from the newer cameras, like their own new Varicam, and had a modern shoulder mount form instead of the camcorder form.

Maybe Steve's right. Maybe the AF100 was not a success for Panasonic. I'd be curious to know how it performed in their product line. Maybe they ran the numbers and it didn't add up.
 
Of course there IS going to be an AF200. Just be patient. Panasonic has a consumer GH4 at 2K and Cinema Camera at 60K. It's certain they're not going to leave that gap open for other makers.

It will probably have the GH4 sensor, but with a better recording options, like 4:2:2 and 10bit internally. And ND filters, built in XLRs and timecode, a proper viewfinder and form factor.

It would kill the Canon cinema line for broadcast use if placed in a competitive price segment. I would bet my money that an AF200 will be out soon. And yes I would buy one, replace my C100.
 
From your mouth to Panasonic's ears! It's been a few years already since the AF100 came out. I had been patient up to this NAB. I was hoping for some announcement, hint, whisper, vague inference, anything from Panasonic that they were even thinking of an AF200. Not so. I'm not so sure patience will be rewarded in this case and I need to upgrade.
 
Personally I liked the AF100. Was it perfect? No. But for its time and of that time it was the first camera to deliver a large chip sensor with very little aliasing and morie. I saw a lot of beautiful things shot with it and I shot some beautiful things with it. If you didn't break a few cardinal rules it would deliver a great image.

But here's a thought... for several really unfair reasons the AF100 got such a tarnishing, such a trashing in the community that I have a feeling that Panasonic is going to steer far clear of that name. If there is another camera it probably will not share the AF name or look in the slightest.
 
I still shoot with it but it's reputation is maligned, often from people who've never worked with it. Last week, I had a director look at two scenes I shot, asked if I'd do his short as a camera op with my AF100. People see what I get with it they love it. As soon as they ask around they want to grab something else, usually a Scarlet or a C300 these days. It's sort of weird how badly the AF100 got bounced around rep-wise, unfairly I think.

It's very capable. Look at bgunda's Siddarth. My Justice came out stunning for the look we were going for. http://vimeo.com/61583898 AF100 is a bit long in the tooth now. 8 bit is not going to cut it going forward. We need an upgrade now or we have to move on.
 
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yup, misinformation from people w/out genuine knowledge of the camera ruined the rep.

People are always surprised when they see my footage and hear it's from the AF100. It's a great camera.

I don't care what they call it, GH4000 for all I care. But they know what we want, and I'm skeptical as to if they will ever deliver something like it at this point. This would have been the year to do it alongside the GH4, so go figure.

Maybe next year we'll see something in this price range with an S35 sensor... who knows.
 
filmguy123 said:
Maybe next year we'll see something in this price range with an S35 sensor... who knows.
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I hope JVC is reading these discussions, especially the thread 3 things for an AF successor. There's a lot of information they could use to further develop their GY-LSX2. But I shouldn't be at all surprised if the camera does not even have an internal ND filter wheel (because the GY-HMQ10 does not have ND filters, too).
 
Steve Kahn said:
Personally I liked the AF100. Was it perfect? No. But for its time and of that time it was the first camera to deliver a large chip sensor with very little aliasing and morie. I saw a lot of beautiful things shot with it and I shot some beautiful things with it. If you didn't break a few cardinal rules it would deliver a great image.

But here's a thought... for several really unfair reasons the AF100 got such a tarnishing, such a trashing in the community that I have a feeling that Panasonic is going to steer far clear of that name. If there is another camera it probably will not share the AF name or look in the slightest.
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Kind of a hot button topic there for me... this year there seems to be a rash of producers in my area hiring cameras... almost anything but AF100. They seem to love my old reel (almost completely AF100 footage with over a years' less experience), state that my style is exactly what they're looking for, but then balk at hiring the AF100 and would rather I rent an altogether worse 5D3.

Let's look at the others in its class:
FS100: clearly not perfect, a solo camera operator's nightmare, buttons all over the place, no ND, have to hold it upside down to get a high-angle shot, etc etc
C100: current industry darling lacks plenty of features, vaunted ergonomics are almost exactly like a large DSLR, rather flimsy handle/XLR pod, in-camera visual monitoring slightly worse than the AF100
EA50: Great run & gun large-sensor camera form, mystifyingly trading ND's for moire and aliasing
5D3/D800: pricewise, yes, they're in the same class. They're great stills cameras that happen to shoot video with enough coaxing.

The GH4+YAGH and A7S could really be something in this market segment, it'll be interesting to see if they gain a significant foothold or if they're shown up by an accessory-needy, audio-challenged 7D2 sporting 1080 framerates up to and including 30p.

Both cinema cameras offer advantages over the AF100 in sharpness and sensitivity, but having used all of them professionally, I'm still an AF100 owner because neither offered significant enough improvement for 95% of the work I'm hired to do (do you really NEED to see the intricate detail in your CEO's nosehairs while he delivers the annual report?). I'm already set up with it ready-to-go and know how to get the most out of it (well, as much as my current skills allow). If a client really needs better, I'll rent up to the FS700 or C300, the _100's barely enter my mind. Even those two $7-10K cameras have plenty of weaknesses to target and exploit if Panasonic wanted to wrest a share of that market.
 
This is exactly what's happening to me. People see my recent work, I tell them it's the AF100 they say "great! that looks beautiful" they talk to someone, then want to use something else. I am shooting a short this week with the AF100 that almost lost out to a 7D. I lost a camera spot to a Scarlet last week which is cool. I think Scarlet is better. One director who hired me because she likes my stuff is renting an Alexa. Hey it's fine by me. I'll shoot on Alexa but many of these jobs stick with owner operators to keep the cost down. I don't try to convince anyone to use the AF100. I just point them to my stuff.

I will say that for some of these shorts if your audience is more interested in the detail held in the clouds of a wide you may have larger problems with your film than the way the camera handles highlights. Why are they looking at the clouds instead of following the story? There's something to being able to say "shot on RED" that has value beyond their budgets and for projects that have someone who can really grade on them, I get it. I'd want a RED if I could get one. But if you're not paying hair and makeup to rent a body, I'd look at the whole project. Some projects are willing to give a large portion of their budget for a camera with "cache."

I was hoping for an upgrade. I should upgrade but I may spend this entire year renting bodies for these jobs, which I will pass through.

Of all the bodies out there now, the only one that interests me at all and is in my wheelhouse price-wise is that AJA Cion, but it's still a mystery and doesn't even pretend to have the functionality of the AF100.

It's just amazing that the producers and directors don't trust their own eyes. Rather, they trust the opinion of someone who may or may not have even worked with an AF100. It's cool. I don't argue it at all. I just wonder how the AF100 became such a pariah. The evidence for the prejudice is not there.
 
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Ebrahim Saadawi said:
Of course there IS going to be an AF200. Just be patient. Panasonic has a consumer GH4 at 2K and Cinema Camera at 60K. It's certain they're not going to leave that gap open for other makers. .
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What makes you think that?

I seem to remember Panasonic producing somewhere around 30 professional cams at the moment!
 
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