FS7: A number of FS7 questions

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IATM112

Member
*Note-I'm sure some of these have already been asked and answered...I just can't find the right threads*

I'm getting ready to purchase the FS7 MKII and I *think* I've got everything I need figured out. Sony is sending one to test out this week, so I'll be able to decide if the kit lens works for my needs.

-I shoot primarily sports- auto racing with some football sprinkled in. This camera would also be used for interviews and on-cam segments for a broadcast show.
I come from a news background, so I am very familiar with the ENG style of lens- my previous two cameras were a JVC HM700 and the Panasonic HPX370. (The 370 was a pain in the neck. Did not like being limited to F/5.6 to hit focus. Another story for another forum) I started as a sports shooter and became a news anchor and now I'm back to shooting race cars and reporting. So while I'm semi-techically savvy...I'm not a classically trained camera op. Prepare your answers accordingly and feel free to make talent jokes.

So here's my multipart lens question:

1)If I wanted to strap a 2/3 ENG lens on my FS7, I need an adapter...but with the centerscan option, I DO NOT need a lens with a doubler, right?
2) The ENG lens needs power for the servo to work- 12 pin Hirose adapter to...something...What is that something? Do I power it off a d-tap, or is there a cable that will plug directly into the power for the Sony handgrip?
3) Finding a quality 2/3 HD ENG lens on the used market doesn't sound like a lot of fun- Why does the stock Sony lens get a bad rap?
4) Say I opted to get a longer non-ENG lens...what do I need to make it work with the FS7 and the Sony handgrip?
5) My lens budget is about $3000 US


Other miscellaneous questions-

-I'm thinking about a Cinebags CB40. Have a KATA for the JVC. Had a PortaBrace for the 370- not enough room for all the kit AND it ruined two pairs of pants. I need a bag that can fit in most overhead bins plus carry a wireless kit, light and other odds and ends. What works for you guys?
-How are you guys attaching wireless receivers? I'm thinking cheese plate> Anton Bauer universal plate/wireless receiver kit and box> Anton Bauer Gold Mount on the back of the camera. Might as well keep using the existing batteries, right?

I'm sure I'm leaving something out, but sometimes you don't know what you don't know or need to ask.

Thanks!
 
I haven't tried B4 lenses on my FS7 but I used a few on my AF100 years ago.

View attachment 121208

It's a great option to make an ENG camera of S35 cameras as they can do double duty. However it requires the right adapter and 12V to power the lens. With the center scan option the doubler on the lens is not needed and this makes you can take advantage of the fast B4 lenses.

As far as I could conclude Canon B4 ax lenses worked well to shoot HD. I used a small 12V battery to power the lens and got a Hirose cable from ebay. I have no B4 lenses today but if I could justify it I might go for this in the future. If the need would occur.
 
Osslund said:
I haven't tried B4 lenses on my FS7 but I used a few on my AF100 years ago.

View attachment 121208

It's a great option to make an ENG camera of S35 cameras as they can do double duty. However it requires the right adapter and 12V to power the lens. With the center scan option the doubler on the lens is not needed and this makes you can take advantage of the fast B4 lenses.

As far as I could conclude Canon B4 ax lenses worked well to shoot HD. I used a small 12V battery to power the lens and got a Hirose cable from ebay. I have no B4 lenses today but if I could justify it I might go for this in the future. If the need would occur.
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No problems with chromatic aberrations with B4 lenses? I always thought that since these lenses compensate for offset of chips in 3CCD cameras, then when used on single chip cameras where 3 channels are on the same plane, they cause aberrations. What is the reality?
 
I'll take a stab at a few of these.

Where did you see that the 18-110 Sony kit lens gets a bad rap? I love the lens and find it a great piece of glass for the money.

I think $3000 is the low end of the range for used 2/3" ENG glass that will resolve to the level of the FS7 II sensor but you can always hope for a good bargain.

Abel Cine has a cable that can power your ENG lens.

If you are looking for a camera with fast autofocus for sporting events, the FS7 is not your camera. While the new 18-110 focuses faster than the 28-135 prior kit lens, autofocus is not the camera's strong suit.

You are correct that you do not need a lens with a doubler because of the center scan.

The great thing with the FS7 II is the locking mount which will carry a good deal of lens weight. You would lock your E to B4 adapter securely and then mount the lens to the adapter. Any weak points would be in your adapter rather than in the adapter to FS7 II pairing.

The variable ND feature is very useful in an outdoor setting particularly so that should be a tremendous help in your scenarios.

Wireless receivers-- Consider the Sony UWP series of wireless receivers and the shoe adapter. That turns the FS7 and FS7 II into a 4 audio channel camera. Your wireless receiver will not require XLR cable and you will still have your 2 XLR inputs available and assignable. I just got the 2 channel Sony wireless receiver so I can have two wireless inputs. Really great in an interview situation.

Baseplate- VCT14 -shoulder mount. I have a Chrosziel on my FS7 and the Zacuto Universal Plate on the FS7 II. I prefer the Zacuto because the plate slides and allows better balancing of the camera.

The extension handle on the FS7 II is greatly improved over the FS7 but I would still recommend the Shape replacement handle.

The cameras are now starting to flow from Japan so availability should be improving. I'll leave that one for the board sponsors.

The FS7 and FS7 II are terrific documentary and interview cameras and that is my primary use. My FS7 is out on rental and I know it has been doing some TV shows, low-budget feature and even some web cooking pieces.

Best of luck with it!

Ned Soltz
 
nsoltz said:
I think $3000 is the low end of the range for used 2/3" ENG glass that will resolve to the level of the FS7 II sensor but you can always hope for a good bargain.
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Ned- Thanks for the info. What should I be looking for in a 2/3 lens? In other words, how do I tell if the lens I'm looking at will work with the FS7? I haven't shot on that size since my first news job back in 2009...and it was BetaSX. I don't remember much about it, other than it made pretty pictures.

I talked with three people who do the same type of work I do...one guy opted for the FS5, the other two put DSLR lenses on their 7s. They all said the kit lens wasn't great for racing. I'm looking forward to seeing how it performs this weekend.

I've also got the UWP D16 kit and looked at the hot shoe mount- I just have visions of it getting knocked off in spectacular fashion. It is a super interesting option and cheaper by half than one of the plate mount kits out there.

Thanks for the advice!
 
nsoltz said:
Where did you see that the 18-110 Sony kit lens gets a bad rap? I love the lens and find it a great piece of glass for the money.
Click to expand...

He was likely talking about the Sony 28-135mm which is criticized for various quirks ( weird electronic focus, being too slow at f/4, having a servo motor that is difficult to feather, and being a bit lifeless as far as image / bokeh. ) I've owned that lens for 2 years now and have only used it a handful of times. Maybe on 1 out of every 30 shoots.

Glad to hear you like the 18-110, but I reckon it will be met with the same criticisms.

You are correct in that, for the money, it is a good lens and there really is nothing else in that category for less than $20,000. The only other servo zoom with an adequate wide to tight range is the Canon 17-120mm at $32K.



IATM- I suggest you go with the Sony 18-110 kit lens and pick up a Canon 70-200mm for the telephoto work. Then, as budget allows, something wider like the Tokina 11-16mm. Then you are covered from 11mm to 400mm if you center-scan.

The Sony 18-110mm and the Canon 70-200mm won't exactly "match" in the look they each produce, but "matching" lenses is overrated. That's feature film / commercial DP stuff. Most all of us mix lenses and mix lenses regularly. I mix Rokinon, Sony, Canon, Sigma all the time. No client has ever complained or even, to my knowledge, noticed the discrepancy in lens renditions. Jumping from GoPro footage, to Osmo footage, to iPhone footage ain't nothing but a thang' these days. Mixing lens manufacturers ain't gonna hurt nobody. Not for ENG / Sports work.


You are going to want a top plate for mounting stuff b/c that Sony wireless takes up the shoe mount on the handle, leaving you no place to mount an on camera light.

http://www.smallrig.com/SMALLRIG-FS7-Top-Plate-1586.html

and yeah, I'm not wild about the idea of that wireless being perched up there on the handle. Gotta wonder if the person who came up with that idea has ever worked with a camera in the field.
 
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Your question reads a little like "I'm going to be juggling Fire and knives, tell me how to do this, I have 30 seconds for your response"

2/3 lenses is a minefield of options for a start there are are least 2 types of adapters - ones with and without optics.

Then you have a myriad of ways of setting the Fs7 different resolutions and frame rates

And then there is your light level and desired iris.

Then you have the actual image circle of your 2/3 lens.

Also your desired "look"

All this means there is probably not a pick up and shoot solution from 2/3 lenses

Some random observations from some testing ive done..

Centre scan is a bit crappy. Better to shoot 4k full scan with doubler engaged, a non optical adapter, and crop about 25% of the image in post.

You may have to crop more or less depending on the selected iris, zoom length and if you think some CA is "groovy" Indy productions can - or want a "clean" tv style look
Above 60fps you are better with centre scan, no doubler and an optical adapter

The kit lens is probably a better place to start.. But may not have enough reach
You may want something like a 100-400 for sport bit this would be a stills lens and not have a powered zoom
I have a nikkor 50-300 - Doug Jensen likes a canon and may chime in with the model

On the CA thing you can clearly see it when lenses are open and go away as the iris is closed so if you must shoot at t1.8 because it is dark your options are diffent to shooting 5.6 in the sun
So.. No easy answer
 
The 18-110 zoom can be completely disconnected from the servo for full manual operation. As far as focus, it is considerably better than the 28-135 but there is some servo lag. Have to look at this as a $3500 option rather than a $10-30K option.
 
Oh and the fs5 has better AF tha the fs7 so might be better for sport if you are not a focus demon and can live with the lower bit rates
 
I have access to 2/3 fs7 fs5 and still lenses from 10mm to 600/4 .. Each project we think about the right setup depending on look, quantity of cameras, light level and what we can carry.

Last time I did motor racing I used two cams.. Fs7 with 18-135 canon zoom and another with a 400:2.8 - those were the "land based" cameras

The track was Goodwood - and we had it for making our film - on a race day I would expect to be further back at which point only a 400 would get you near the action
 
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Your DOF is going to be extremely low for auto racing . Do you need a large sensor camera?
If so The FS700 has much better autofocus with a Sony lens as does the Canon C300 Mk II.
 
Thanks again to everyone for the replies. I feel a little like I'm drinking water from a firehose trying to get up to speed on the lens front...or as Morgan so delightfully put it- juggling fire and knives.

Swapping lenses at the track during a race isn't really a viable option. Now, having an interview lens and an action lens is a possibility- but I'm not sure that makes a ton of sense. These shoots are usually one camera op and one reporter/producer cranking out day-turn videos for a manufacturer to distribute on social media and internally. Speed is of the essence...I'd love to shoot in 4K...but I don't think that workflow makes sense for what we do.

On top of that...the video we acquire at the track gets repurposed for a half-hour broadcast and the occasional commercial.

Some additional info- The majority of what we cover is road/street racing- Some shooting locations give you 5-8 seconds of video, some only give you 2-3. Our client would like us to incorporate more slo-mo video into what we produce.
We have a very specific target to hit that is quite literally always moving. I'd say the style is somewhere between News and Documentary- but with a cinema look, which makes picking a lens a bit of a challenge.

It sounds like a 2/3 setup could cause more problems then it solves--but that ENG form factor is super easy to use with what we do. And familiar.
 
Hey Morgan, I'm jumping on IATM's thread with this but maybe it will be of benefit to him:


What do you think of Sony's 2/3" 4K camera that was recently announced? IATM's sports shooting needs prompted me to think of that camera, because I am wondering if a Fs7 is actually what IATM needs.


http://www.xdcam-user.com/2016/04/n...450-4k-23-shoulder-cam-x400-to-get-4k-option/


In many ways it makes so much sense, but that said I am wondering what owner / op would purchase one. It would be difficult to plop down $25k for a camera that cannot provide a client the s35 "look" that is what everyone wants these days. And can't shoot in ProRes or output RAW. A 4K capable ENG lens for that camera is going to run another $40k. So we are talking $65,000.00 in all. And what client is ever going to request a 4K 2/3-inch camera? One could likely obtain just as much work, if not more work, with an Fs7 or an F55 that can be bought pre-owned for around $15K.

It's a head scratcher. But so is that $99K Fujinon 14.5-45mm zoom. I guess someone buys them or they wouldn't make 'em.
 
I think a 4k 2/3 camera probably has too small pixels to work in low light - to me big pixels rock - the Alexa has big pixels not big resolution which is why it always outperforms its paper spec
 
Iatm

You certainly need to choose manual or auto focus -and do you zoom while rolling ..which will push your camera and lens choice

If you go auto then fs5 or c300ii are better cameras

You would then probably get a trackside lens -an 80-200 or 100-400 and shoot Slomo in a crop/hfr mode

An 80-200 is of a size that is very manageable - the bigger zooms can need special rigging and be hard to carry when not on the camera
If you a a hard man and up for manual focus and want in shot parfocal motor driven zooms then you must go 2/3 or a cine zoom ($20k+motors)
Assume the cine zoom is out for cost reasons then a 2/3 lens and optical adapter is probably the thing or try a 2/3 lens with a diloubler and non optical mount

Dslr lenses will be more "cinematic" use the sensor better but not give in shot zooming
Personally I'd go that route
17-55 for interviews 80-200 for track

Also it can be possible to rig a second camera - bmc micro with a wide on top of the tele lens!
S
 
morgan_moore said:
I think a 4k 2/3 camera probably has too small pixels to work in low light - to me big pixels rock - the Alexa has big pixels not big resolution which is why it always outperforms its paper spec
Click to expand...

This is of course true but in situations where shallow DOF of S35 is not desirable, in those situations the ENG camera becomes more sensitive as a system (with lens, not as a camera itself). That's because you can afford to shoot wide open on 2/3" in many situations, while on S35 the same F stop will give too shallow DOF, which may be not practical (for working with actors, for fast moving objects, etc. etc). In example, let's say you shoot a scene on S35 camera of a native ISO of 2000. Let's say that In order to achieve DOF deep enough to be practical in this particular scene you need to stop down to f/4. Now compare it with an ENG camera who's native ISO is only 320 ISO. Because it achieves same DOF while being 2.5 - 3 stops more open (f/1.4 - 1.7) it becomes effectively a more sensitive system, which is very important because this translates into how many lights you need. Cut 3 stops from S35 camera's 2000 ISO and it becomes 250 ISO effectively vs ENG camera's 320 ISO.
 
Wrong - it is all swings and roundabouts - noise at different ISO, magnification whatever.

Ultimately the sensitivity of the system is the ability to catch photons of light.

It might sound trite but the size of the front element defines that.

You may note that most man portable zooms have about a 100mm front - meaning they all catch the same light
 
morgan_moore said:
Wrong - it is all swings and roundabouts - noise at different ISO, magnification whatever.

Ultimately the sensitivity of the system is the ability to catch photons of light.

It might sound trite but the size of the front element defines that.

You may note that most man portable zooms have about a 100mm front - meaning they all catch the same light
Click to expand...

Sadly, I have to say you did not understand a thing.
 
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