a new rig to do a special pan

Re: a new rig to do a special pan

[quote author=Prairieboy link=board=Events;num=1104560333;start=15#18 date=01/01/05 at 21:11:33]A jib would not do it, he needs the axis to change, and unless you have a dutch head on the jib that is not going to happen. :o[/quote]


Sorry, I should have been more precise.
Use a jib, with a pan/tilt head. As I've never used a jib without, it never occurs to include that detail (a jib without the head is pretty much useless, IMO).
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

Pookie that would still keep it on the same axis. I too would always asume that there would be a head on it. But I believe he want to keep the head in the same orientation the whole way through. So if it is top to bottom lying down, he wants it top to bottom sitting up. Thus a jib, with a head will not do this. at one point either start or finish it will go from up/down, to right left. Thus if you use a ronford head, or a dutch head you can change that axis as the actor does the movement.
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

So the camera would have to go through a 45 degree rotation on the Y axis, is this correct?
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

Prairieboy, we must be crossed up somewhere because all the jibs I've worked with will do this type of shot perfectly.
All of the various angles, simutaniously.
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

From what I can tell, if the subject is lying down & the camera is off to one side taking a profile shot of the subject then a jib with the camera mounted sideways would do the trick. The arc of the jib & the subject arc need to be close. The jib will keep the shot horizontal, swing through the arc and it'll be smooth. Sychronizing the actor to jib through the arc swing will be the issue, or it'll be: scene 26B, take3012.......... ;)
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

That is if they are laying on their backs, But I believe he mentioned that they were on their sides.
So, if it were a two axis head on a jib, which unless it is a rock concert, most of them are. If the subject were lying on its side but the face in the frame went from top to bottom (like the camera basically being on its side), then the subject sat up, with the head still top to bottom, the camera being in a normal state to the horizon now.
So in order to do this, you would need a dutch head, or the camera on a Ronford head facing sideways to do the axis shift.
Yes a jib will follow a person up normally, but I do not think it is the point. Heck you can do something like that with a normal head up high enough say on a ladder and hihat, and just follow them as they sit up. I believe the uniqueness of the shot is that is keeping the subject in the same porportion to the frame while the axis or horizon changes. :-X
Either that or the crack I bought is just way too good. ;D
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

[quote author=Prairieboy link=board=Events;num=1104560333;start=15#25 date=01/02/05 at 19:31:50]That is if they are laying on their backs, But I believe he mentioned that they were on their sides.  
So, if it were a two axis head on a jib, which unless it is a rock concert, most of them are.  If the subject were lying on its side but the face in the frame went from top to bottom (like the camera basically being on its side), then the subject sat up, with the head still top to bottom, the camera being in a normal state to the horizon now.
So in order to do this, you would need a dutch head, or the camera on a Ronford head facing sideways to do the axis shift.
Yes a jib will follow a person up normally, but I do not think it is the point.  Heck you can do something like that with a normal head up high enough say on a ladder and hihat, and just follow them as they sit up.  I believe the uniqueness of the shot is that is keeping the subject in the same porportion to the frame while the axis or horizon changes. :-X
Either that or the crack I bought is just way too good. ;D[/quote]


Still would work for me.

Oh well......
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

Let me get this straight, there seems to be some confusion, and it could be me!

The subject laying of her side facing the camera 1 ft away (her face can be either side ways as in lying down, or normal- head up) & were to rise up on her side into an upright position keeping her head looking at the camera the whole time(keeping the camera frame horizontal all through the shot)

If this is correct, and from what I read it seems so, pls correct me if I'm wrong.  

It will take a very small jib with the appropiate arc (center of lens to fulcrum point, say around  12 to 18, inches) that is set parallel to her ( it takes the position of the guy lifting up next to her: it's a POV shot),

This requres positoning the camera differently (90 degree) on the jib than usual. I just did it, it took a few minutes to set it up.
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

rich, cool. what program is that?

That is the shot I want. However, in my dream shot I wanted the camera axis to rotate 90 degrees as you tilt up. Does that add a large degree of complexity to the issue?

c.g.
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

[quote author=Rich Lee link=board=Events;num=1104560333;start=15#27 date=01/02/05 at 20:26:50]i think hes trying to achieve this....

http://www.rich-lee.com/temp/girlsit_CD.mov

[/quote]
jeez Rich...I was thinking that may be the only way to help people envision this, but way to much work. Next thing I know you've got it posted well done ;)

I noticed however that you left the device needed to get the shot...Invisble :(
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

:) Thanks Rich, I got it wrong, my shot was even more complex; what you put down is how i first imagined it, but then I ruined it! :-/

This shot is simple but will take some work to devise the tools needed. Attach camera to a post as shown somehow, attach the post to a head or a fulcrum , counter balance and tilt. Cool shot!

I can see how an image option for diagrams (Frame Forge) & such like Riches would cut down on the confusion. I enjoyed trying to figure this out....any more I can get wrong? :)
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

[quote author=mino link=board=Events;num=1104560333;start=30#31 date=01/02/05 at 21:14:53]
I noticed however that you left the device needed to get the shot...Invisble :([/quote]

how dare you?! :D

http://www.rich-lee.com/temp/gripmoco_CD.mov


10s-diagrams like that can be extremly helpfull. its what i do for a living. imagine a room full of crew trying to understand some big visual effects sequence in a movie, and the director shows them a whole cut sequence full of this sort of thing (better looking of course). it gets rid of alot of headaches...but can add some depending on who you are...like a producer who can see that a sequence will cost 10million dollars...anyway, blah blah blah
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

LOL.... That is amazing Rich... Maybe a little bit big for the DVX ;D Looks like you could tote the shuttle to the pad on that bugger. Good turn around time though.
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

Rich I take it that you also include overhead diagrams for blocking, lighting, etc...?

It makes it a ton easier for storyboards...hey that's why Walt Disney invented them! I suppose he got tired of this sort of thing we had going on here.

Do you use "frame forge" all the time or other programs?

I was thinking of using it but it seems like it'll take some time to master...I'm too busy right now, but it would be great to use instead of my stick men drawings.
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

yeah, lots of overhead diagrams as needed, depends on the shot.
we use xsi/maya for all our work. frame forge and programs like it cant do all the stuff we need to do with it. what we do replaces storyboards at times. 50% of the time we work with no boards at all and just go off of what the director tells us he wants to see.

anyway, blah blah blah.
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

Hey c.g.,

You already got the right jib and head? Great, go for it.
What kinda budget ya workin' with here? Millions? Ok, forget me.
How's you're shooting schedule holding out? You don't have a deadline? Lucky you, forget me.

You say the budget or time is tight, or you don't have the right stuff ??
You lookin' for a bike yet? A 27" rim with a ball head will give you 21-22" of arc radius and follow the face referenced to the frame. But if the cam is maintained level with the horizon, the radius starts at ~13" and increases to 21-22" TDC.
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

That is sweet Stuff Rich. I still say this, there is a tool that is made to do this. It is a head, not that expensive to rent, called a Ronford head that will do just what you need it to do. :-X
It is L shaped and usually sits withe the camera pointing towards you it you are looking at the L normally. Now you can turn it 90 degrees so the lens points away from the L 's stem. And this will get you the shot that Rich so phenomenally describes for us.
;)
 
Re: a new rig to do a special pan

Praireboy I'm sure you're 100% correct of the Ronford head, as there are many ways to solve shots.

This whole verbal/written dialogue demostrates how akward words alone can be, we need visuals to help us communicate...or is that we are all visual artists and have difficulty using words  :-/
 
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