T2i a letter to Mr. Yuichi Ishizuka, VP of Canon Imaging re: the T2i

Ed Kishel

Ed Kishel

Veteran
Canon T2i and 7D owners- I have decided to get old-school on Canon and write a letter to their VP of Consumer Imaging in the US- Yuichi Ishizuka. Yes, on actual paper. My request is that they release a firmware update that disables the AGC of the camera. Here is the letter I will be sending:

July 23, 2010

Yuichi Ishizuka
Canon USA Inc.
1 Canon Plz
New Hyde Park, NY 11042-1198

Dear Mr. Ishizuka:

I am writing to you today in regards to my Canon T2i Digital SLR camera. First, I want to tell you briefly about my camera and me. I am a videographer and editor here in Phoenix, and have been working in this field professionally since the big DV “revolution” in the late 90s. I also teach video production part-time at a community college. I usually work with dedicated video cameras, but since the huge success of the 5D Mk2- I started to keep an eye on DSLR cameras for their video capabilities.

To test the waters, I decided on the T2i. With its large sensor, lens options, microphone input, and small form factor- it seemed like a good fit for me. I bought it the first week it was released in the US, and have been using it for over 7 months now. And I want to tell you that I am very happy with the camera. It’s fun and easy to use, and for its price, the video it produces is gorgeous. It’s a serious contender for use in our schools film program.

However, there is one issue I would like to see improved in the camera, hopefully through a firmware upgrade. The automatic gain control, or AGC- is permanently enabled. This means whenever we use the T2i (or 7D) in quiet situations, the camera increases the audio gain, which in-turn introduces noise into the recording. The result is audio with a loud “hiss” throughout. This can be fixed by making the AGC feature optional, and letting the users decide if they want this feature. I am not the only one who wants this feature adjusted- many other users have been calling in to Canon Support while others have been blogging or posting to online forums.

“But these cameras have been flying off the shelves, and are on backorder in most stores. Why should Canon take the time and money to correct this issue?” My argument for this is based on two ideas that Canon itself supports:

Idea 1: Canon knows that better sound quality is important to its consumers; this is why they upgraded the on-camera microphones by including a mic-in port for the T2i. However, having an AGC that cannot be turned off essentially cripples the idea of “improved sound quality”.

Idea 2: But at the same time, Canon knows that the having the option to disable the AGC in their products is important to its consumers. This is why they make it possible to turn the AGC off in many of their other video products. Interestingly, even in their lower cost entry-level Vixia line.

Mr. Ishizuka, these two ideas seem to conflict. Having a mic-in port to give users improved audio, but now allowing them to turn off the AGC if they choose seems counter productive. It’s taking one step forward, but two steps back.

In closing, please consider contacting your engineers and asking them to include this feature in the next firmware upgrade. Thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

Sincerely,
Edward Kishel
Canon Customer


To other 7D and T2i owners, if you also want the AGC feature available as an option and not permanent- consider sending your letter as well. Please be sure to keep it positive and short.

Maybe he will never read it- intercepted by some secretary who feels he is "too busy". Or maybe the AGC fight is a lost cause- but if it only costs me a stamp and 15 minutes more of my time, it's worth another try.
 
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I like it, and I am all for it. Just correct the one grammatical error ("but now allowing them to turn off the AGC") and you are good to go!
 
do it like the pros; record audio separate and ditch on-board channel audio in post. problem solved, the RIGHT way. T2i audio will never equal dedicated audio capture.
 
Zissou said:
do it like the pros; record audio separate and ditch on-board channel audio in post. problem solved, the RIGHT way. T2i audio will never equal dedicated audio capture.
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although true, if we can disable AGC, it'll make it cheaper for low-budgeters. i'd love to see this happen; as for what i plan to do, i need only worry about getting a decent mic.

and thanks for sending the letter, Edweirdo.
 
Fahad said:
although true, if we can disable AGC, it'll make it cheaper for low-budgeters.
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Oh for goodness sakes. The Zoom H1 is $99 and they'd have to buy a mic anyway. Why does everyone want to make a movie with nothing but lint in their pockets?

We have $800 cameras rivaling the $100k cameras of 10 years ago. We can do stuff in $75 NLEs that pros couldn't do in $10k Avids 10 years ago. We can get a PC from Wal Mart that is faster than anything George Lucas had when he made Star Wars.

How much cheaper does it need to get?
 
I have a Zoom H4n and can mount it to the camera and do 2 system, but just becuase we want a mic-in without mandatory gain doesn't mean we are not a pro.

The cost/benefit of this camera is great for small film programs like the one I teach, but with the AGC I have to look elswhere.
 
Alot of people could care less about the AGC, and its not an issue for them. And thats cool, I just think it would be great if Canon gave us the same option they give the users of thier $400 vacation cameras. We are not asking for raw HDMI output. I think this is a reasonable request. And for those who say "screw the mic-in, use a flash audio recorder". Well why not both? While you use the H4n to record your production sound, mount a nice mic to the camera and get an extra track of audio for safety or ambient effects.
 
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PerroneFord said:
Oh for goodness sakes. The Zoom H1 is $99 and they'd have to buy a mic anyway. Why does everyone want to make a movie with nothing but lint in their pockets?

We have $800 cameras rivaling the $100k cameras of 10 years ago. We can do stuff in $75 NLEs that pros couldn't do in $10k Avids 10 years ago. We can get a PC from Wal Mart that is faster than anything George Lucas had when he made Star Wars.

How much cheaper does it need to get?
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thank you. audio is VERY important, and audio is how we made our name locally versus our 'older/experienced' ad competitors (plus we started in HD and pioneered HD ads locally and legit serious editing and corrections) by using XLR onboard mics, wireless lavs, or preferably external audio recording for the best quality.

i still love off-camera audio capture, or better yet music videos where audio is never used, that way i dont have to deal with it at all. with the DSLRs we NEVER use on-board audio.
 
Zissou said:
with the DSLRs we NEVER use on-board audio.
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so if a DSLR had a fairly clean mic input (for an SLR that shoots video) you would intentionally still turn it off? Well, different strokes.....

Because of small budgets, my students are provided only one lav mic and one shotgun mic, and two xlr cables. What drives me nuts is when they use the lav to mic an interview, and the shotgun sits in the bag. The other channel is left blank. I tell them- you may not need it, but don't waste that other channel! Plug in that shotgun and hide it somewhere nearby. No, it won't sound the same, but it's something. If the lav audio works out- great, but you always have the other channel as a backup if you notice something bad during post.

The DSLR is going to record an audio track with the video, even if you cover the mic hole with gaffers tape, or plug a terminated 3.5mm plug into the jack to kill it. Those .mov files will have audio tracks regardless. So why waste two free extra channels of audio? Even if there are better audio options on set, like a dedicated mixer/boom op or the Zoom recorder... why not stick a basic $100 mic on the cold shoe and get some back up?

And during editing, when the external audio kicks the crap out of the onboard, then throw that backup track away and say "I told ya so". But what if...

It’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
 
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Edweirdo said:
so if a DSLR had a fairly clean mic input (for an SLR that shoots video) you would intentionally still turn it off? Well, different strokes.....

Because of small budgets, my students are provided only one lav mic and one shotgun mic, and two xlr cables. What drives me nuts is when they use the lav to mic an interview, and the shotgun sits in the bag. The other channel is left blank. I tell them- you may not need it, but don't waste that other channel! Plug in that shotgun and hide it somewhere nearby. No, it won't sound the same, but it's something. If the lav audio works out- great, but you always have the other channel as a backup if you notice something bad during post.

The DSLR is going to record an audio track with the video, even if you cover the mic hole with gaffers tape, or plug a terminated 3.5mm plug into the jack. So why waste two free extra channels of audio? Even if there are better audio options on set, like a dedicated mixer/boom op or the Zoom recorder... why not stick a basic $100 mic on the cold shoe and get some back up?

And during editing, when the external audio kicks the crap out of the onboard, then throw that backup track away and say "I told ya so". But what if...

It’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
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DSLRs are not unfamiliar to me, but i prefer to record external first, onboard phantom XLR near the target second, and mounted shotgun third.

with the DLSRs we use, we just delete the audio track entirely in post. same with all the onboard audio for interviews or music videos etc. most of the time, we use phantom/XLR mic recordings, from the cam to a shotgun overhead and lav as well, and take the best overall recording; i agree with the 'better to record than to NOT record' statement you made, but onboard, DSLR or camcorder, is dismal at best. OK/useable if its mounted shotgun (bad if the cam is operated manually), and usually good/great if its off-cam. again all ive heard from minijack mics is garbage, so we dont bother. if audio doesnt matter or we are recording closer to a distant source, who cares about the cam/camcorder audio because it will be deleted in post.

my argument was mostly against on-board DSLR or mounted DSLR mics; just because $2000 can get you a running rig does not mean it will both sound and look good. every time ive heard them the DSLR and any onboard audio tracks are TERRIBLE at best. check youtube and the majority of poor sounding clips are on-board.

most scenarios, an external audio recorder or on-board XLR, some cabling, and crafty work can net far better audio. again i am not really 'small budget', i use the mics and tools i already have, but always go for top quality, so we usually dont bother with on-board aside from deleting it.
 
I see. Even if I had the gear/sound crew you have, something in me would still force me to stick a cheap mic on the camera. Even if I knew I would def not use it. That's the teacher in me. I have spent many days (unpaid) helping students to fix audio where a backup on the other channel would have saved the day. Even if it was an unbalanced minijack mic.
 
Edweirdo said:
I see. Even if I had the gear/sound crew you have, something in me would still force me to stick a cheap mic on the camera. Even if I knew I would def not use it. That's the teacher in me. I have spent many days (unpaid) helping students to fix audio where a backup on the other channel would have saved the day. Even if it was an unbalanced minijack mic.
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im not deriding you in any way or disagreeing; generally i either do not use audio (music videos) or my audio guy has already configured the mic placement and i trust his judgement WELL over my own, as much as i trust you have a better idea of how to handle audio than I do. i have one audio tech; he used to have a recording studio; i dealt in stills and later in video, and my audio was ALWAYS terrible, so when i hired him i relied on him to take care of the audio side of things, and my comments echo his suggestions.

to be perfectly transparently honest, we have the gear and my audio technician swears by it, in my experience, and by that i literally mean personal pursuits, on-board (integrated body mics) are nowhere near as good as off-body (even a shotgun on-camera is great). for family stuff i always use a simple AT-897 mounted on my camera. i trust you, having taught this field, have a better grasp of the concepts in audio capture than i. if you have any tips for built-in audio i am all ears and always willing to learn. i meant no disrespect; most times i deal with imagery, not audio, but i do believe that a shotgun or lav will net better audio than a pinhole built-in mic in most situations. most of my work now is music videos, so audio is obviously 'taken care of' beforehand.

for our upcoming webshow we use hidden mics, all recorded to externals, and mixed by our audio tech. ive never studied or taught audio; so frankly i should have nothing to say here, beyond that i feel off-camera (by that i mostly mean a non-integrated mic) is better. from the use of 5D MkII and 7D's ive used, i feel the audio is not worthy of any sort of 'broadcast' be it internet or otherwise.
 
Good discussion. Like some of the old timers here, I came up in a world of film cameras. You metered, you shot, you waited 3-7 days to get your film back to see what you had. Film cameras didn't shoot sound. Still don't for the most part. So when I switched over to video, I just naturally gravitated toward the workflow of the day. Sync sound with a clapper.

What is funny is that even as a solo shooter, I don't record sound into my camera. And I mean the EX1 which has better sound than some of these recorders people are buying. I record lav, boom, or both into a 24bit recroder. I might do wild sound for sync purposes, but that gets tossed as soon as the tracks are synced up. I have shot with a mic mounted on the camera, but only as a last resort and certainly not on a paying gig.

I think with all of the things we could be writing to Canon about, removal of the AGC so we can have marginal in-camera sound just doesn't seem that crucial. I'd say if you want to write a letter, ask them not to turn off the LCD when we have an external monitor hooked up. That would be something!

But if the AGC is very important to a group of users, then have at it. I guess I just didn't understand it, but it seems a number of folks are really passionate about it.
 
Fahad said:
ideally, $0. but, having no AGC option in-camera is a realistic ambition.

i ask you, how expensive does it need to be?
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Ideally, I'd like to see NLEs start in the $500 range, 24p cameras in the $4k range, and sound recorder in the $1k range.

And while we're at it, I'd like to see them take that silly live-view thing off the back and replace it with something useful. Like a little area to write notes like when I had my film box top there. That was useful!
 
PerroneFord said:
But if the AGC is very important to a group of users, then have at it. I guess I just didn't understand it, but it seems a number of folks are really passionate about it.
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yeah, i think the whole thing boils down to budget, type of project, experience, goals, expectations and the like.

there's a lot of people here with different backgrounds and goals. and of course, everyone responds to a certain aspect of filmmaking with all that baggage, if you will, fueling his/her response.

of course for the professional that works with an average budget of, say, $50,000 and a certain expectation from his/her client of X is going to offer a different opinion than a person working with an average budget $500 and expectation Y.

all in all i'm happy things are getting cheaper to do all the time. these cameras are basically computers. and computers are getting cheaper, faster, and more efficient over time. eventually, i think the only thing that will cost a lot of money is the crew/labor/talent i. e. the human element. maybe locations.
 
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