7D? Pah

commanderspike said:
It's all about the lenses.
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If that's the case, then one could say that the 7D's crop sensor has an advantage over the 5D because it'll allow the use of cine lenses without vignetting issues, once somebody (like Illya) makes a PL-to-EF adapter. Then one would have access to superior glass without such worries as crop factor or fast enough lenses at the wide end.

BTW: Yes, I realize that you're referring to lenses that you actually own, and you don't care about renting cine lenses.
 
Barry_Green said:
On firmware updates: There isn't one that I know about. Obviously the biggest one was to add manual controls for exposure... I've been with Canon for 20 years -- that was something I would have bet money on that we wouldn't do. It's just not like us to change the features on a product after it's out -- we save that for the next one. But, because of the demand, and the need of filmmakers, we did do that. So... would there be a firmware update that would change the feature set, vs. just fixing bugs? We're always firmware updating if there's bugs, but... for a feature change? It's not in the works that I know of." He basically at that point referred people over to Tramm Hudson.
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I am going to disagree with his claim that they updated the 5DmkII firmware with maunal controls for video all because of customer demand.
No, instead the reason that presented a stronger persuasion to update it was because they saw a loss in lens sales when people were resorting to using Nikon lenses. The Nikon 17-35 f2.8, AF-D primes, and ZF primes saw a healthy surge in sales, just because they featured an aperture ring.
Canon doesn't see the lack of 24p as a serious threat, because they might lose some sales due to lack of 24p, but it is not nearly as many compared to what was being lost on lenses without manual control.
I'm still optimistic that we could see a 24p update in the 5DmkII, but if it doesn't come shortly after the 7D's official release, it won't happen at all.
 
Barry_Green said:
But that begs the point -- if the footage is all you care about, why shoot on a DSLR that Alan Roberts of the BBC didn't even bother to test, once he shot a zone plate on it?

And the answer is, as it always must be: quality at a price point. The price point is paramount. If you wanted the best image, you'd shoot on an Arri D21. If you can't afford that, you'd choose an HPX3700 or a Red One. And if you can't afford that... on and on, down to the 5D's price point.

The 5D and the 7D have some serious video quality issues, mainly moire, aliasing, and jello. The GH1 has its issues, including streaking and occasional mud. We put up with them because of the price point..
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Alan Roberts put down the 5D as soon as his zone plate test was done, because it had crippling problems with aliasing. But in practical use, we all know what footage the 5D is capable of, which in turn makes these kind of lab tests not incorrect but, well, a bit short sighted.

To lavish praise on the HF10 like Roberts did and to savage the 5D may have been scientifically correct on a very very narrow operating window, but we all know the 5D is capable of more than the HF10 can every dream of.

I find the argument between full frame and the 7D interesting that's all. I am not trying to rubbish the 7D. I just have an opinion that the 5D's full frame sensor gives you a incredible advantage with some very special lenses. Just as the GH1's 2x crop enables you to use an amazing range of glass which was never even designed to be used on a digital SLR (the 16mm Switar and Kodak Ektar C-Mount cine lenses for example) the 5D allows you to look through 35mm photography glass as it was intended to be seen.

The 7D will be a GREAT camera. But it has neither the advantage of a very small sensor like in the GH1, nor the advantage of a full frame sensor. It doesn't fix aliasing and it doesn't fix AF. It doesn't have improved handling & usability and it doesn't have a flip out screen. I just feel a bit underwhelmed when people list the 7D's advantages over the 5D.

Anyway - these are exciting times. I may buy a 7D after the 5D I feel I really need 24p and a smaller sensor.
 
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commanderspike said:
I am not trying to rubbish the 7D.
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The problem was that you said that people were being blinded by hype and weren't facing cold reality. Although you might not personally find the 7D very appealing compared to the 5D, that doesn't give you the right to mischaracterize the reasons why people have become so hyped about the 7D.

I just have an opinion that the 5D's full frame sensor gives you a incredible advantage with some very special lenses.
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No argument here. I just wish that you had said it at the beginning and left it at that, instead of bringing up the negativity about the 7D and its avid followers.

Just as the GH1's 2x crop enables you to use an amazing range of glass which was never even designed to be used on a digital SLR (the 16mm Switar and Kodak Ektar C-Mount cine lenses for example)
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It's not the size of the sensor so much as the lack of a mirror box.

the 5D allows you to look through 35mm photography class as it was intended to be seen.
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Only if you're talking about still photography and the aesthetics of still photography. And that's fine, but it shouldn't be made as a general statement for cinematography.

The 7D will be a GREAT camera. But it has neither the advantage of a very small sensor like in the GH1, nor the advantage of a full frame sensor.
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But it does offer an image format very similar to standard 35mm motion picture film. And that is a major advantage for some people, just like full frame is a major advantage for you.

It doesn't fix aliasing and it doesn't fix AF. It doesn't have improved handling & usability and it doesn't have a flip out screen. I just feel a bit underwhelmed when people list the 7D's advantages over the 5D.
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Again, other people are excited about it for very different reasons. It sounds like you're putting down the 7D. It doesn't matter what it doesn't do compared to the 5D; what matters to other people is what it does better. So why continue complaining about it? We get it; the 7D is not so appealing to you and your needs. But it's almost like you're talking as if people don't already know about the 7D's shortcomings.
 
Barry_Green said:
Can't happen.

At least, not without ripping the mirror out of the camera.
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Is the problem something other than flange focal distance? The FFD of PL is 52mm, while the FFD of EF 44mm. According to those numbers, it should work fine. But is there something that protrudes way out of the rear of PL lenses?
 
Ah yes, it makes sense now. But at least you can still use Panavision lenses!
 
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That would be a 3D. There's been a gap in Canon's DSLR line-up for years coresponding to the old EOS 3 series of cameras.
The 7D falls just below the 5DII but has better sealing, so a 5D sized body with 1D build quality and either a 1.0 or 1.3 sensor, and with Digic V proscessing would be very atractive.
Dave
 
it would probably be like the 1DmkII/III i forget which, the faster cycling sports camera.
 
What is coming next year is gonna be VERY exciting indeed.

I just hope the 3D (if it exists) is gonna be priced closed to the 5D than the 1D Mark IV, which will surely be the first to have DIGIC V but if the 1D Mark III versus 5D Mark II is anything to go by it'd be marked up quite considerably!
 
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