720 better with hmc150?

F

firehawk

Veteran
Is it really best to shoot 720p with the hmc150? I've read many people saying because it's pixel shifted that 1080 is no better and they say shoot in 720. Plus you can get 720 60p.
Would up-resing with magic bullet instant HD provide just as good results as actually shooting 1080 with this camera?
I'm wondering if shooting 720 would be best and then up-res on the few occassions that I actually need 1080. Any thoughts?
 
I shoot with the HPX170. The 170 uses the same pixel-shifting to get 1080p. I would say 1080p30 and 720p60 are about dead even. I like to use 720p60 on a 30p timeline so I have the option of good slo-mo.
 
I don't think in my line of work-shooting a lot of scholastic events-it is better, in my work I tend to favor shooting in 1080/30P vs. 720/60P. Not a huge diff, but I do prefer it. Others may have different preferences, but that is my experience.
 
Hi Guys

720 is "supposed" to give you a better downconvert if you are supplying the end result on DVD...however I haven't seen any difference between 1080 and 720 personally. I actually shoot weddings at 1080i simply because the frame rate for progressive in PAL land is down to 25fps not 30 like the USA so you can easily get a bit of blur if you are too fast on pans!!! I did a test a while back and shot the same scene using 1080i, 1080 P 720P in both 25 and 50 fps and downconverted them all onto a DVD and sat down a group of friends to select "the best clip" ....just to stir things up I shot the sequence in DVAVI too (my cams can do SD) ... Apart from the SD clip NO-ONE got it right and I had a mixture of results showing that to the average viewer it doesn't really matter what AVCHD mode you shoot in, they couldn't tell the difference at all.

Chris
 
I shot this entire video in 1080-24p on the hmc 150
and after working with the footage in post i think the camera is a little sharper in 720p
 
firehawk said:
Is it really best to shoot 720p with the hmc150?
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No, not really.

I've read many people saying because it's pixel shifted that 1080 is no better and they say shoot in 720. Plus you can get 720 60p.
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People say lots of things. Not that many people go out and actually test it.

It is true that the 1080 isn't going to be THAT much sharper than the HMC150's 720p. It'll be a little sharper, but not a whole lot. But it will be sharper, and it will have substantially more color information (960x540 color samples, vs. 640x360 for 720p).

If you need the "live" look, you can't beat 720/60p.

Would up-resing with magic bullet instant HD provide just as good results as actually shooting 1080 with this camera?
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I wouldn't think so, but haven't tried.

I'm wondering if shooting 720 would be best and then up-res on the few occassions that I actually need 1080. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
If shooting 60p, then yes. If shooting 1080/24, I'd do that rather than shoot 720/24.
 
The fact that there is a debate about whether 720p or 1080p is better, is laughable in itself. I stopped shooting on 1080p on the HMC about 6 months after getting it. 720p/60 is my go to rate on that camera, primarily for the slow motion at 40%... Great at high shutter speeds but the codec breaks down under low light. Barry is completely spot on about color information. He wrote the book.

HD-Resolutions.png


The difference SHOULD be more dramatic. How Panasonic, or anyone, can get away with selling a not-really 1080p camera is beyond me. When I bought it I was under the impression that it actually shot 1080p, not 720p shifted.
 
HotConductor said:
How Panasonic, or anyone, can get away with selling a not-really 1080p camera is beyond me. When I bought it I was under the impression that it actually shot 1080p, not 720p shifted.
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To be fair, everything involves trade-offs. It is evidently difficult to produce an inexpensive progressive-scan full 1920x1080 CCD as small as 1/3". They could have gone with CMOS, which could produce a fully resolved 1080p image, but at the expense of having a rolling-shutter. Panasonic (among others) make other cameras that are exactly that, if you need it.

The HMC-150 has a proper global shutter, which is a big deal for many users who are willing to live with the resolution trade-off. Also, most DSLR's have trouble resolving enough detail to even fill a 720p frame. Resolution is clearly not everything.
 
Wesley Byram said:
To be fair, everything involves trade-offs. It is evidently difficult to produce an inexpensive progressive-scan full 1920x1080 CCD as small as 1/3". They could have gone with CMOS, which could produce a fully resolved 1080p image, but at the expense of having a rolling-shutter. Panasonic (among others) make other cameras that are exactly that, if you need it.

The HMC-150 has a proper global shutter, which is a big deal for many users who are willing to live with the resolution trade-off. Also, most DSLR's have trouble resolving enough detail to even fill a 720p frame. Resolution is clearly not everything.
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Amen. I love my GH2s but they suck for glidecam work. CMOS sensors have a strong distaste for photographers. Go figure...

Cameras like the GH2 do not have trouble resolving 720p or 1080p. There is a marked difference between the two. Stuff like the 7D/5D though, you are spot on. Hence all the moire.

I still have my first HMC150 and use it on almost every shoot. Manual focusing helps out a ton. I've seen tons of HMC videos where the focus was not on the subject... drives me nuts.
 
To add to that, name a camera from ANY manufacturer that fully resolves a 1080p frame, and has a global shutter for $3,000. Seriously, I want that camera if it exists.
 
HotConductor said:
Cameras like the GH2 do not have trouble resolving 720p or 1080p. There is a marked difference between the two. Stuff like the 7D/5D though, you are spot on. Hence all the moire.
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True, but the GH2 is the exception (it's also, technically, not a DSLR, if one is being pedantic about it), and whenever you hear about a DSLR being used in a big-budget production, it's always a 7D or 5D.

HotConductor said:
I still have my first HMC150 and use it on almost every shoot. Manual focusing helps out a ton. I've seen tons of HMC videos where the focus was not on the subject... drives me nuts.
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Indeed. The operator is far more important than the camera.
 
Wesley Byram said:
They could have gone with CMOS, which could produce a fully resolved 1080p image, but at the expense of having a rolling-shutter.
Click to expand...

Even that won't get you to full 1080p resolution by itself. I stopped shooting the HMC a while ago, trading all my (four) HMC cameras for Canon XF100 which are CMOS. While the XF100 is a lot sharper (and a LOT cleaner) than the HMC, it's still not full 1080p resolution because it uses a bayer sensor (just like DSLRs), which means it has to interpolate the bayer pattern to get the final 1080p output. The XF300 OTOH has 3 sensors and IS sharper than the XF100 with a single sensor. However, it's also more than twice the price, a lot larger and heavier.
 
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