5K iMac or New Mac Pro?

Grug

Grug

Veteran
Hi Guys,

I currently have a maxed out late 2012 27" iMac, 3.4Ghz i7 quad-core, 2GB GPU, 32GB RAM. And lately, having been doing a lot of grading work with in Davinci with raw (5k Redcode, 4k Sony raw, 2.8k Arriraw), I've just been having constant crap outs. I'm always running out of GPU memory, or having the whole system shutdown (which forces me to have autosave running every five minutes - and is just a pain in general (particularly in the middle of 3 hour exports!).

So I'm really feeling the need for more grunt. At the very least, enough GPU memory that Davinci doesn't crash constantly.

The Mac Pro trashcan has never been too compelling (and now it's three year old tech) so I've looked into other things like hackintoshes, but I'm just not too comfortable with that idea. At the moment, it looks like I could get either a maxed out 5k iMac (4Ghz i7 CPU, 64GB RAM, 4GB GPU) for around $5000 or a near maxed out New Mac Pro (12-core 2.7GHz, 64GB RAM, Dual D700s) for only about $400 more.

At that minor price difference, the New Mac Pro certainly starts to have a lot more appeal, especially with 12-cores for VASTLY faster exports from Resolve, and 12GB of GPU RAM (which I assume would never 'run out' anymore).

However, I've been reading these horror stories of botched rendering from the New Mac Pros in Resolve, which gives me pause.

How do people think the market stands at the moment for mac-centric options? Are there any other options I should be considering for around a $5500 budget?

Going back to PC might be an option for Resolve, but I do my editing in FCPX, so I really don't want to have to change or mix systems if I can avoid it.

What do people think?
 
I'm in the same boat to some extent, still using a previous gen Mac pro, so I'll need to spend a lot on RAID enclosures and so on - I have six drives stuffed into the pro right now. Trying to pull the trigger in the next week or two.

I've barely touched resolve, but all the testing I've seen shows Resolve to be one of the few things to really take advantage of the new Mac Pro's architecture. Have you gotten some straight answers from users at the Black Magic forums? And also checked BMCUser - there are a lot of Resolve hard-hitters there. I'd think - 3 years into the trashcan's lifespan - there should be some really concrete answers out there.

For me, I'm gonna try the 3.3 5K iMac with the 4GB GPU and an SSD; adding my own RAM will get it to about $2600. I'm guessing the 4GB GPU will have more of an impact than the 4GHZ processor, but again, I don't use Resolve. Though a new Mac will get me giving it a serious shot, seems like it partners with FCPX well.

Either way I need to dump some cash into Tbolt RAID and USB enclosures - the mid-to-high 5K imac is still $500 less than the entry Mac Pro (and includes a pretty decent monitor). The overall upgrade will make it less painful if I find I really need a Mac Pro down the line, and the iMacs hold their value really well.

Man, I still have a 2009 Mac Pro transcoding H265 after 6 years of hard, hard service - that blows my mind!

Speaking of, how has your iMac held up service-wise?
 
I've just gone for a Maxed out (barring the ram - as its cheaper 3rd party) with the i7 4GHz and the M395X 4GB card at $2,799

For me a maxed out trash can comes in at $8,799 (on the apple website) - where are you getting one at $5,400 ??

compare.jpg


I seriously looked at a Mackintosh, but the limitation of a FAST R280 card (which are hard to buy now - as they are old) or going with high end Nvidia card - which ends up slower than an iMac - didn't make any sense - along with all the issues with KEXT files, crashes, future update issues etc etc
 
We've got a late-2014 model 5K iMac in our edit/color suite, and Resolve seems to run fine. We've never really had any big issues with RED 5K, ARRIRAW, or footage from other 4K sources like the GH4 or FS5. We're editing in Premiere and round-tripping through Resolve, and it works well enough. Most of the crash issues we seem to have are Adobe-related, with only the occasional hiccup inside Resolve.

You might also look into ColorFinale (and the new ColorFinale Pro) for FCPX. It brings some of the key Resolve toolsets into FCPX, and it might allow you to use Resolve a little bit less, depending on the work you do.


Cheers!
 
Are you looking at new or used iMacs and Mac Pros? Those prices don't seem right if you are buying new. Maybe its an Austrialia thing, but here in the US a maxed out iMac 5K is ~$3500 vs maxed MacPro for ~$8800...

I could see the pricing evening out a bit more on used since MacPros 2years older than the iMac, but not to the degree you are talking about.

http://barefeats.com/imac5k18.html
Looks like the new mac pro will be worth the extra money if you can really get a maxed out one for only $400 more than an iMac. Of course you still have to buy a screen for it...

Another option if you want to just keep your old imac going might be to get an external thunderbolt GPU for it.

If the Mac Pro is at a big discount over retail then it's a good option, otherwise I'd wait for one with newer processors since the iMac has a CPU 3-generations newer than the Mac Pro, but those generations didn't bring too many huge performance increases.

Another option that I've heard about is getting an old 12-core 2012 Mac Pro maxed out with dual 6-core 3.46Ghz CPUs for around $2k. These have real PCIe slots so you can even put more GPU power in them than the 2013 Mac Pros have, and it's easy to pop in tons of RAM and use the PCIe Slots to add external PCIe slots or add newer connectivity. The problem is they dont have thunderbolt or USB3 but you may be able to add those or even newer versions via PCIe.
 
Michael Carter said:
I'm in the same boat to some extent, still using a previous gen Mac pro, so I'll need to spend a lot on RAID enclosures and so on - I have six drives stuffed into the pro right now. Trying to pull the trigger in the next week or two.

I've barely touched resolve, but all the testing I've seen shows Resolve to be one of the few things to really take advantage of the new Mac Pro's architecture. Have you gotten some straight answers from users at the Black Magic forums? And also checked BMCUser - there are a lot of Resolve hard-hitters there. I'd think - 3 years into the trashcan's lifespan - there should be some really concrete answers out there.

For me, I'm gonna try the 3.3 5K iMac with the 4GB GPU and an SSD; adding my own RAM will get it to about $2600. I'm guessing the 4GB GPU will have more of an impact than the 4GHZ processor, but again, I don't use Resolve. Though a new Mac will get me giving it a serious shot, seems like it partners with FCPX well.

Either way I need to dump some cash into Tbolt RAID and USB enclosures - the mid-to-high 5K imac is still $500 less than the entry Mac Pro (and includes a pretty decent monitor). The overall upgrade will make it less painful if I find I really need a Mac Pro down the line, and the iMacs hold their value really well.

Man, I still have a 2009 Mac Pro transcoding H265 after 6 years of hard, hard service - that blows my mind!

Speaking of, how has your iMac held up service-wise?
Click to expand...

My current iMac has been bulletproof (apart from constantly running out of GPU memory in Resolve - which is obviously taxing the system to its limits). It's been really good to me. The iMacs do seem to hold value pretty well, that said, I'll probably just keep mine as a monitor (if I do end up getting a desktop machine), not worth getting a few hundred dollars back for it after having to spend $1500 on an equivalent monitor to replace it - however if I did go the new 5k iMac route, I'd sell it. (which does make the iMac a cheaper move).

TheTrickster said:
I've just gone for a Maxed out (barring the ram - as its cheaper 3rd party) with the i7 4GHz and the M395X 4GB card at $2,799

For me a maxed out trash can comes in at $8,799 (on the apple website) - where are you getting one at $5,400 ??

I seriously looked at a Mackintosh, but the limitation of a FAST R280 card (which are hard to buy now - as they are old) or going with high end Nvidia card - which ends up slower than an iMac - didn't make any sense - along with all the issues with KEXT files, crashes, future update issues etc etc
Click to expand...

The crappy exchange rate at the moment, really burns us down here in Oz. The maxed out iMac comes to $5030 (if I upgrade RAM via OWC) which is literally twice what I paid for my current iMac three years ago. I'm able to get the Mac Pro for that good price by buying smart - if I were to get all of it through Apple Australia it'd be $11,000!

I'm looking at $5000 for the maxed out 5k iMac, or $5400 for the nearly maxed out Mac Pro. So the question is what to do with those options at those prices.
 
Also my current RAID is thunderbolt, so really need a system that supports that (which makes going back to an older mac pro tricky).
 
I can't think of a reason why you would buy a Trashcan over an 5K iMac in the current climate. Speed is very similar and you get a 5K display included.

If you have Thunderbolt accessories already, that I would say would rule out an Hackintosh (due to sleep issues and removal).
 
TheTrickster said:
I can't think of a reason why you would buy a Trashcan over an 5K iMac in the current climate. Speed is very similar and you get a 5K display included.

If you have Thunderbolt accessories already, that I would say would rule out an Hackintosh (due to sleep issues and removal).
Click to expand...

Quad-core 4Ghz compared to twelve-core 2.7Ghz? Rendering times should be massively faster with the 12-core I would have thought? The GPU RAM is also a big deal.

That said, Noah, I'd heard mention of the possibility of Thunderbolt eventually support external GPUs, but I didn't realise it was a reality! I just found this: https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox2-egpu.html#about

On original Thunderbolt (like my 2012 iMac) it supposedly gives you 87% of the graphics card's full processing! That's huge! I think I'll just get one of these things and pair it with a Titan X 12GB card. That might solve all of my issues for processing power and video memory in Resolve! Very cool, thanks Noah!
 
Those Bizon boxes are not a completely supported native product for OSX - They work yes, but its not something that 'should' work - the App has to be running on the Monitor connected to the GPU to gain access to the GPU etc etc. Also the guy making them is making a massive mark up on a cheap TB2 based PCI enclosure and Dell power supply...

TB3 based GPU's are here and now (See Razer Blade Stealth and Razer Core) - No native support from OSX thou.

As to Quad-core 4Ghz Vs. twelve-core 2.7Ghz? I'm unsure on Resolve - but the iMac is pretty much on par with the 12 Core for FCPX.
 
Couple things that haven't been said yet:
1. "3 year old tech" isn't terribly relevant at this point, since the power user hardware market is going nowhere fast. The days of the 18 month upgrade cycle are long gone. We can all expect to pay more and more in the future since no one cares about computers anymore and the market has gone south, but the flipside is, we won't have to upgrade as often because hardware development speed has slowed down significantly.
2. What are your main uses? Sounds like Resolve. For that, I would focus on GPU. That's where all your resources should be concentrated. For me, for instance, it's rendering horsepower for 3D. I still use the old Mac Pro towers (several of them now, because they're cheap and can be render-noded) because if you take a good look at their CPU performance, only the trashcan 12-core exceeds the old tower 12-core, and not by a significant margin. So price per cycle, the old towers are still without question the way to go considering I can throw 72 "old" threads at my renders for the same price as 24 "new" ones. It's all the same speed.
3. I push 4K all the time on my eSata raids, 20TB for less than $1000. Is my stuff the absolute fastest possible? No, but not unreasonably far off. Can I get Thunderbolt? No. Does Thunderbolt provide something I can't get? Not yet. Nor am I interested in the Thunderbolt RAID prices. Would I like to have all shiny new stuff? Sure. Does it make sense financially? Definitely not, and won't for I suspect a couple more years minimum with the current hardware development timeline.
4. One more thing about the old towers - I'm pushing 12GBs of Nvidia GPU on a flashed Titan card for the same price as the trashcan's 12GB GPU. This sounds like an ad for defunct towers, but hey word to the wise. Things haven't changed much for the Apple power user in 7-8 years, unfortunately.
 
jsolterbeck said:
Couple things that haven't been said yet:
1. "3 year old tech" isn't terribly relevant at this point, since the power user hardware market is going nowhere fast. The days of the 18 month upgrade cycle are long gone. We can all expect to pay more and more in the future since no one cares about computers anymore and the market has gone south, but the flipside is, we won't have to upgrade as often because hardware development speed has slowed down significantly.
2. What are your main uses? Sounds like Resolve. For that, I would focus on GPU. That's where all your resources should be concentrated. For me, for instance, it's rendering horsepower for 3D. I still use the old Mac Pro towers (several of them now, because they're cheap and can be render-noded) because if you take a good look at their CPU performance, only the trashcan 12-core exceeds the old tower 12-core, and not by a significant margin. So price per cycle, the old towers are still without question the way to go considering I can throw 72 "old" threads at my renders for the same price as 24 "new" ones. It's all the same speed.
3. I push 4K all the time on my eSata raids, 20TB for less than $1000. Is my stuff the absolute fastest possible? No, but not unreasonably far off. Can I get Thunderbolt? No. Does Thunderbolt provide something I can't get? Not yet. Nor am I interested in the Thunderbolt RAID prices. Would I like to have all shiny new stuff? Sure. Does it make sense financially? Definitely not, and won't for I suspect a couple more years minimum with the current hardware development timeline.
4. One more thing about the old towers - I'm pushing 12GBs of Nvidia GPU on a flashed Titan card for the same price as the trashcan's 12GB GPU. This sounds like an ad for defunct towers, but hey word to the wise. Things haven't changed much for the Apple power user in 7-8 years, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

+1

Which is why when I needed a "heavy-iron" rig several years ago I built my own custom PC.
 
how do you render-nod several macpros together?

thanks


jsolterbeck said:
Couple things that haven't been said yet:
1. "3 year old tech" isn't terribly relevant at this point, since the power user hardware market is going nowhere fast. The days of the 18 month upgrade cycle are long gone. We can all expect to pay more and more in the future since no one cares about computers anymore and the market has gone south, but the flipside is, we won't have to upgrade as often because hardware development speed has slowed down significantly.
2. What are your main uses? Sounds like Resolve. For that, I would focus on GPU. That's where all your resources should be concentrated. For me, for instance, it's rendering horsepower for 3D. I still use the old Mac Pro towers (several of them now, because they're cheap and can be render-noded) because if you take a good look at their CPU performance, only the trashcan 12-core exceeds the old tower 12-core, and not by a significant margin. So price per cycle, the old towers are still without question the way to go considering I can throw 72 "old" threads at my renders for the same price as 24 "new" ones. It's all the same speed.
3. I push 4K all the time on my eSata raids, 20TB for less than $1000. Is my stuff the absolute fastest possible? No, but not unreasonably far off. Can I get Thunderbolt? No. Does Thunderbolt provide something I can't get? Not yet. Nor am I interested in the Thunderbolt RAID prices. Would I like to have all shiny new stuff? Sure. Does it make sense financially? Definitely not, and won't for I suspect a couple more years minimum with the current hardware development timeline.
4. One more thing about the old towers - I'm pushing 12GBs of Nvidia GPU on a flashed Titan card for the same price as the trashcan's 12GB GPU. This sounds like an ad for defunct towers, but hey word to the wise. Things haven't changed much for the Apple power user in 7-8 years, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
 
TheTrickster said:
As to Quad-core 4Ghz Vs. twelve-core 2.7Ghz? I'm unsure on Resolve - but the iMac is pretty much on par with the 12 Core for FCPX.
Click to expand...

That may be if FCPX isn't very well multithreaded, but in properly multithreaded applications the top 12core macpro is about 2x as fast as a top 4core imac at least for CPU speed. Geekbench3 still puts the macpro on top with a 32K score vs the iMac with 16K. For comparison a 2012 12core 3.46Ghz mac pro gets around 31-32K, basically catching up to the latest mac pro but with much more easily upgradeable internals.

I always say spend as little as you possibly can on new computer technology since the price drops very quickly and new tech comes out every couple months. This has definitely slowed down a bit and is a bit less the case in the Mac market than in the PC market as a whole, but it still holds true.

My new windows laptop has TB3 and is similarly speccd to a 5K iMac and only cost me $750, so I always have trouble stomaching Apple's pricing. Buy used for sure and spend as little as you can without affecting your work.
 
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the only real advantage of the mac pro is the D700, BUT most software these days is getting better and better at maximizing existing Vram (fcpx runs crazy good even on mbp) i am sure resolve 12.5 will run pretty amazing on a top of the line iMac ....and you get an amazing 5K screen thrown in....
a thing to consider is that the new chips are in the market now and should show up in this fall's new iMac line up.....that along with new gpus should make a nice little extra speed improvement....(but we know that the next models are alway better).....if you can wait 4 months, you will get a much better machine with TB3,.....
IMO the best way to deal with hardware is to buy a top of the line iMac every 2 years and sell the old one ....you would be surprised about the resale value....
 
Depending on how much in a hurry you are? Apparently there's new graphic cards coming that will be a big leap in performance that most likely gonna make it into the next update of the iMac... Which sees a pretty regular update... The "new" Mac Pro isn't very new anymore but more uncertain when it will be updated...
 
Also keep in mind that one Nvidia 980 or 980Ti or Titan X GPU can probably keep up with or beat the dual D700s... or you could put in two cheap slower cards to easily match the old dual D700.
 
Thanks guys. Hard as it is, it sounds like waiting for TB3 to arrive is probably a sensible move, it seems almost as significant an upgrade to computing as USB3 was.
 
The answer is always to wait if you can afford to. But even if Apple brings TB3 to one of their macs then there will be something else groundbreaking to wait for again while prices on old tech drop drastically. What does TB3 really do that TB2 doesn't besides doubling speed again? I'm glad I have TB3 but I have yet to use it in 6 months. I guess if TB3 becomes more accessible because of its unusual prevalence I'm windows computer markets that could be something too...
 
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