C100: 5D3 w/ Pix240 or C100 w/ Pix240?

Omar N

Omar N

Active member
Hello all,


I've been searching the internet for an answer to this question but have not come up with anything concrete. I do mostly travel documentary work and am trying to decipher the difference between a 5D3 and a C100, both with a Pix240 external recorder capturing 8 bit 422. So far, the only difference I can discern is that the C100 will be a bit sharper and has the Canon log dynamic range. Be that as it may, the 5D3 is also an excellent stills camera for time-lapse and can do slo motion up to 60fps. That being said, the 5D3 can be sharpened in post to bring it up a little, and both will have an equally gradable image given the identical codec... so is there anything else I am missing? The Pix240 would give the 5D3 XLR inputs, so that is a non issue. Form factor for me is also a non issue.


So far, the advantages seem hardly worth the extra $3-4k that I could use to buy some nice lenses, but then again, I have never used a C100.


All help greatly appreciated. Thank you!
~Omar
 
The main difference is color. C100 is on another level. Better skin tones, better high iso color reproduction, better color contrast.
 
I own the Pix220, and it doesn't do Start/Stop detection on the HDMI like the Atomos Ninja does. When I'm shooting with the pix, I don't have it 'on-camera'. If I did need to shoot for broadcast, I'd probably stump up the cash for the Ninja. I have a rig for the Pix to work with the FS100 (which work together well), but it's a big shoulder rig. Not the sort of thing that can be used everywhere, which is precisely why I purchased a C100 - for all the convenience of shooting with a DSLR, without the inconvenience of shooting with a DSLR (both lists available all over the web!).

The 5DmkX ethos is 'Full Frame' and the slightly overly worked skin smoothing but there's something more. The 5Ds have it, not sure if the 7Ds and under have it. But it's a 'Look' that's baked in. C100 can look like DSLR, it can look expensive, it can look TV. Your choice, and not necessarily when shooting, either.

There are things that the C100 doesn't have which the 5Ds have - funnily enough, great stills, and timelapse - but I'm getting used to keeping a DSLR handy for this purpose. YMMV.
 
Hi,

To say that the C100 is "sharper" is using the wrong terminology, according to me. Footage can be sharpened in post, and saying that the C100 is sharper is suggesting that the mk3 can be sharpened in post and be brought to a similar end result. But this is not the case. There are worlds between these cameras when it comes to resolved detail.

I own both cameras and I really like the 5Dmk3, so it is not a case of me bashing it. I enjoy filming with it and I have been very close to buying a 1Dc (instead of keeping a 5Dmk3+C100), because I totally understand the sweetness in having it all in one package.

I really enjoy my C100 as it makes shots possible that you just can't do on a mk3 (mostly in the wide to medium focal ranges), but every time I pick it up I leave the mk3 behind—and that is also a great camera. I wish the 1Dc was more like $7500... or that you could buy a 1Dx and then upgrade the firmware for a reasonable amount.

The C300/C100 delivers a more or less "perfect" 1080p image with good color and detail into the shadows. It's cool.
 
Just shot with a C100 last week, along with our C300 PL. It matches the C300, has the same color science in the CP I was using, same great resolution(5D3 not in the same league), better DR, small amount of skewing, more image control in-camera due to full matrix, knee, slope, detail, gamma, gain controls, built-in ND's. Nothing beats the C100/C300 series resolution wise for HD at their price points, IMO.
 
I shoot with the 5D3 and recently added a Sony FS700 + Speed Booster. Priced between the C100 and C300, this set up provides full HD resolution (1920x1080 compared the 5D3's ~1620x910), and similar low light performance (Canon does more NR in camera, however the detail on the FS700 is preserved well with Neat Video NR in post). The FS700 and C100 have a similar (perhaps same licensed codec) 24Mbps AVCHD internal codec performance. Adding a Nanoflash to the FS700 brings a pro Sony long GOP and I-frame-only MPEG2 422 codec (similar to the C300, only with variable bitrates from up to 180Mbps in LGOP an 280Mbps in I-frame only). The FS700+SB+Nanoflash is around $4700 lower cost vs. the C300. Being able to shoot full frame on the FS700 (technically 1.09 crop) with Canon lenses makes the FS700 a great companion to the 5D3. Straight from the camera, the 5D3 still has a magical look in terms of color and image processing. However, the FS700 + SB can be set up and tweaked in post to look very much like the 5D3 (similar bokeh and FOV as well). Here's a quick test: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...Sony-FS700-Speed-Booster-vs-Canon-5D-Mark-III

The FS700 is also an amazing slow motion camera 60-240fps full HD, + reduced resolution 480-960fps (example shot with kit lens: autofocus and optical stabilizer): https://vimeo.com/58075075
While the 18-200mm kit lens is not as good as Canon L lenses, given the decent autofocus and stabilizer, it works well for live / ENG type shots. When Sony releases a servo zoom lens compatible with the FS700, the zoom rocker can be used and will make the FS700 a nice live/ENG camera. The Speed Booster also provides effectively an extra stop of light. Thus the 24-105 F4L for example gets F2.8 light performances (does not change effective DOF as actual F2.8 would). A better way to say this might be using T-stops: a T4 lens becomes a T2.8 lens.

There is currently no other combination or system available right now that can produce full HD resolution full frame video vs. the FS700 + SB (1DC is close with scaled down "4K" to 1080p APS-H). When cost and full features are not considered, the C100 and C300 have an advantage by providing more pleasing in-camera color and image processing vs. the FS700. That said, the FS700 can probably get closer by tweaking the 6 internal picture profiles, however the point was Canon produces very pleasing results out of the box. The C300 also provide a 50Mbps 422 LGOP MPEG2 codec out of the box which is generally broadcast compliant (420 24Mbps AVCHD can match it in many cases, however there may be barriers due to broadcast standards).

Lastly, the FS700 can be used with a non-Speed Booster type Canon adapter giving it similar lens performance to the C100/C300 (Super35). That's a lot of flexibility and quality for the price.

Matched frame of 5D3 and FS700+SB showing image and bokeh quality (50/50 blend) using the 24-105 F4L at F4 and 50mm:
FS700+SB_5D3_DOF.jpg

Bokeh size/detail:
bokeh_match.jpg
 
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I agree that the FS700 offers a lot of features for the money, and has very good dynamic range. It does not have quite the resolution horizontally as the Canon C100/C300, grain structure is larger/coarser, moires with fine verticals vs. fine horizontals for the Canons, is more likely to show vertical edge artifacts on high to low frequency transitions, so I would consider the image of the Canons to be more sophisticated. The highest speed frame rates obviously reduce resolution and increase moire artifacts, but the camera can make some very nice images.
 
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