5D Setup for Doc Style Production

[hyalinejim]

With the caveat that you lose 1/3 stop of highlight information, if I recall correctly.

 

[Lee Wilson]

With the caveat that you lose 1/3 stop of highlight information, if I recall correctly.

I didn't know that part, thanks.

Still sounds like a reasonable trade off for most situations ?

 

[PerroneFord]

You might already know this, but it does no harm to repeat it for those that do not know.

Thank you, yes. I did see the charts and examples before we shot and I used the "clean" frame rates. However, there is a missing component in that list.

The list you offered that is "cleaner" is only cleaner in low-light. Those 1/3 stop ISOs trade highlight latitude for low-light cleanliness. The even stop ISOs strike a balance, and the 1/3 stop ISOs in the other direction hold the highlights better at the expense of clean blacks.

I made the call on ISOs based on the scenes we were shooting. And THAT folks, is when having a light meter comes in very handy.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Where did you get those lens caps? Did they come with the 80mm step up fronts?

Thanks!

Yes.

 

[stevedocmaker]

In response to the original thread, I have been testing the 5D on some in-house doc projects and whatever rig setup and lenses you use you have to practice using this camera. It is anything but point-and-shoot.

Problem number 1: Focus, especially at low aperture, is a *****. You need to magnify the LCD somehow to achieve focus at narrow f-stops. The magnify button on the back of the camera works great, if your not recording. If your subject moves or you need to change focus while recording, this button is inactive. An HD field monitor works well enough, but since the HDMI output signal changes as soon as you hit the record button (no more HD output), it's still possible to miss the focus. When going handheld, I use a custom made (DIY) shoulder rig and 4x reading glasses (I need 1.5x reading glasses normally). Some people like the Z-finder, but it's pricey. You have to experiment to find what works for you.

Problem 2: Frame rate is true 30fps. I don't care too much that I can't get 24p yet, but the non-drop frame issue is a pain. Let's hope the new firmware addresses this. This is not a problem if you do not intend to broadcast your work, of course.

Problem 3: Internal audio is useless, and you need to install Magic Lantern to turn off AGC. But then you need a preamp of some kind, which just makes your rig more complicated. And I don't like Magic Lantern. As powerful as it is, it's a beta software hack, and it has its problems.

Problem 4: Canon EF lenses are not made for video. As someone else mentioned, with these lenses you should use a vari-ND filter to control the exposure (and shoot in manual mode). This is one more level of complexity while shooting. You can use auto mode, but you won't be able to control the aperature and shutter speed as well (in this mode the camera gives first priority to aperture, next to shutter, last to ISO), and if the camera decides to change aperture while recording (with these lenses) it will drop 3 frames. This is one reason why many people shoot with Nikon or Ziess primes. AND, the focus ring on manual primes works backwards from the ring on the EF lenses, just one more level of complexity.

I find that I am constantly struggling between simplicity and versatility with this camera. I have given serious consideration to just going back to an EX1 or similar, but I am starting to believe that I can overcome these problems with enough practice. I have a still photo background and I love the look of the 5D image, so for me it may be worth the trouble. But if I need to have someone else operate the camera on a project, I'll probably break out the EX1.

 

[saneproductions]

Ok,

Thanks so much for all of your help!

Here is my final list::


5D Mark ii with 24-105 f4L IS Lens (you save around $350 by buying as part of a kit) $3500 for both
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/583987-REG/Canon_2764B004_EOS_5D_Mark_II.html

SanDisk Extreme CompactFlash Card 32GB $245 (two 16GB Cards are recommended over a single 32GB)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/646870-REG/SanDisk_SDCFX_032G_A61_Extreme_CompactFlash_Card_32GB.html

SanDisk Extreme CompactFlash Card 16GB $140 (two 16GB Cards are recommended over a single 32GB)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/646867-REG/SanDisk_SDCFX_016G_A61_Extreme_CompactFlash_Card_16GB.html

Canon LC-E6 Battery Charger $60 (optional)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=590433&is=REG

Canon LP-E6 Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery Pack (7.4V, 1800mAh) $64 (two extra batteries should be fine [camera comes with 1 and a charger])
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=590459&is=REG


Singh-Ray 77mm Vari-ND Variable Neutral Density Filter $390 (makes it possible to shoot outdoors)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Singh-Ray+77mm+Vari-ND+Variable+Neutral+Density+Filter&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

Zeiss Telephoto 85mm f/1.4 ZF Planar T* Manual Focus Lens for Nikon SLR $1033 (optional) (this fills the gap in my set of lenses see more information about lenses at the end of the page. I would like to discuss lenses with you. Please note that the Zeiss ZF series specified here are Nikon mount and will work with Red and Scarlet. The EOS version of these lenses don’t have manual iris control and will not work with Red.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/441700-REG/Zeiss_1405_176_85mm_f_1_4_Planar_T_.html

Redrock Micro "Captain Stubling" DSLR Bundle $975 (optional, but needed to shoot hand held)
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.472981/it.A/id.850/.f?sc=2&category=2700

Zacuto Z-Finder $395 (more important than it sounds)
http://store.zacuto.com/Z-Finder.html

Nikon F lens to Canon EOS Lens Mount Adapter with Focus Confirmation $150 (only needed with zeiss lens)
http://www.fotodiox.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=28

Lowepro Vertex 300 AW Backpack - for Digital Camera Equipment and 17" Laptop Computer $249
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/487265-REG/Lowepro_LP35020_PEU_Vertex_300_AW_Backpack.html

Sound Devices 702 - High-Resolution 2-Channel Compact Flash Field Recorder $1875 (needed for sound)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/429566-REG/Sound_Devices_702_702_High_Resolution_2_Channel.html

Sound Devices CS-3 Production Case - for Sound Devices 302 Field Mixer $160
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=399052&is=REG


Beyerdynamic DT 770 Premium Closed-Back Stereo Studio Headphones (32 Ohms) $250
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/614487-REG/Beyerdynamic_487907_DT_770_Premium_Closed_Back.html

SanDisk Extreme CompactFlash Card 16GB $140 (For Audio Recorder [two 16GB Cards are recommended over a single 32GB])
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/646867-REG/SanDisk_SDCFX_016G_A61_Extreme_CompactFlash_Card_16GB.html

Hoodman RAW FireWire 800/400 CF Reader $80 (fast card reader would be good since so much data will be created)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/621440-REG/Hoodman_RAW_FW8_RAW_FireWire_800_400_CF.html

Manfrotto by Bogen Imaging 561BHDV Video Monopod with Fluid Head $275 (optional)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/618351-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_561BHDV_561BHDV_Video_Monopod_with.html

Alan Gordon Enterprises Engraved Combo Slate $65 (no time code with this camera. This means that everything has to be slate synced old school)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/207883-REG/Alan_Gordon_Enterprises_1050_02COMBO_Engraved_Combo_Slate.html

Lenses needed:
16-25?? (Canon 17-40 F4L) Not sure what other lens to put here besides the Canon EF 16-35 F2.8L*
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/486708-USA/Canon_1910B002AA_EF_16_35mm_f_2_8L_II.html
Macro (Leica 60mm F2.8 Macro) Zeiss Macro 50mm f/2 ZF Makro-Planar T* Manual Focus Lens for Nikon SLR $1033*
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/472573-REG/Zeiss_1424_664_Macro_50mm_f_2_ZF.html

25mm Zeiss Wide Angle 25mm f/2.8 Distagon T* ZF Manual Focus Lens for Nikon SLR - Black $826*
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/472571-REG/Zeiss_1424_663_25mm_f_2_8_ZF_Lens.html

35mm (Leica 35mm F2) Zeiss Wide Angle 35mm f/2 ZF Distagon T* Manual Focus Lens for Nikon SLR $826*
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/472572-REG/Zeiss_1424_661_35mm_f_2_ZF_Distagon.html

50mm (Leica 50mm F2) Zeiss Normal 50mm f/1.4 ZF Planar T* Manual Focus Lens for Nikon SLR Cameras $550*
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/441695-REG/Zeiss_1405_174_50mm_f_1_4_ZF_Manual.html

85mm Zeiss Telephoto 85mm f/1.4 ZF Planar T* Manual Focus Lens for Nikon SLR $1033
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/441700-REG/Zeiss_1405_176_85mm_f_1_4_Planar_T_.html
OR
90mm potential purchase of a Leica 135mm F2 or F2.8 from ebay to complete the Leica set ($300-400)

135mm (Leica 135mm F2.8)
180mm (Leica 180mm F2.8)

Current Lenses
*Lenses for potential later purchase or comparison

 

[saneproductions]

In response to the original thread, I have been testing the 5D on some in-house doc projects and whatever rig setup and lenses you use you have to practice using this camera. It is anything but point-and-shoot.

Problem number 1: Focus, especially at low aperture, is a *****. You need to magnify the LCD somehow to achieve focus at narrow f-stops. The magnify button on the back of the camera works great, if your not recording. If your subject moves or you need to change focus while recording, this button is inactive. An HD field monitor works well enough, but since the HDMI output signal changes as soon as you hit the record button (no more HD output), it's still possible to miss the focus. When going handheld, I use a custom made (DIY) shoulder rig and 4x reading glasses (I need 1.5x reading glasses normally). Some people like the Z-finder, but it's pricey. You have to experiment to find what works for you.

Problem 2: Frame rate is true 30fps. I don't care too much that I can't get 24p yet, but the non-drop frame issue is a pain. Let's hope the new firmware addresses this. This is not a problem if you do not intend to broadcast your work, of course.

Problem 3: Internal audio is useless, and you need to install Magic Lantern to turn off AGC. But then you need a preamp of some kind, which just makes your rig more complicated. And I don't like Magic Lantern. As powerful as it is, it's a beta software hack, and it has its problems.

Problem 4: Canon EF lenses are not made for video. As someone else mentioned, with these lenses you should use a vari-ND filter to control the exposure (and shoot in manual mode). This is one more level of complexity while shooting. You can use auto mode, but you won't be able to control the aperature and shutter speed as well (in this mode the camera gives first priority to aperture, next to shutter, last to ISO), and if the camera decides to change aperture while recording (with these lenses) it will drop 3 frames. This is one reason why many people shoot with Nikon or Ziess primes. AND, the focus ring on manual primes works backwards from the ring on the EF lenses, just one more level of complexity.

I find that I am constantly struggling between simplicity and versatility with this camera. I have given serious consideration to just going back to an EX1 or similar, but I am starting to believe that I can overcome these problems with enough practice. I have a still photo background and I love the look of the 5D image, so for me it may be worth the trouble. But if I need to have someone else operate the camera on a project, I'll probably break out the EX1.

Thanks so much for this great information! I will try to avoid the situations you discussed and take your advice. If I need to run and gun, I will use an HPX500

 

[ozan]

You might already know this, but it does no harm to repeat it for those that do not know.



On the 5D MkII (I can's speak for the 7D) . . . .


ISO 160 is cleaner, more noise free than ISO 100.

ISO 640 is cleaner, more noise free than ISO 400.


As counter intuitive as it sounds there are ISO/Noise sweet spots in the 5D's ISO range due to the way in which it generates it's ISO range, using a lower ISO does not always increase quality and often adds more noise (as well as lowering sensitivity).

Of course you may simply wish to use ISO 100 for technical reasons - but if you have the scope to do so then increasing the ISO to the next highest ISO that is in the sweet spot range of ISO settings actually improves picture quality.

This is the list of sweet spots - (if you find yourself at an ISO not on this list - then increasing the ISO to the next highest ISO setting on this list will improve picture quality (lower noise).


160
320
640
1250
2500
5000


So if you are at ISO 800 - going to 1250 will improve picture quality ! (really !!)



Lee.

i remember there was a posting on dvx explaining the ISO stuff with the 5d and that 160, 320, 640 etc... are not the sweet spots.



.