5D MKIII x Nikon x Sony

rawfa

rawfa

Veteran
Hi fellas,

If I don't want to shoot raw using Magic Lantern with the 5D MARK III can I simply increase the bitrate? If I CAN increase the bitrate, is is stable? The thing is, I have a Sony A7S, some sony lenses, the Nikon D610 and some nikon lenses but I want one system to rule them all for both video AND STILLS. I was thinking about selling it all and just getting the 5D MarkIII with some primes. I love the D610 for stills and it's not bad for video but the indie/corporate video industry here in Brazil is totally Canon oriented and I've had production companies telling me to shoot with their Canon gear instead of my D610 so all the team's footage is similar. I love the A7S but it's an expensive camera that it's just not tailored for stills when it comes to fast moving subjects (plus the native lenses are big and expensive). I really cannot justify having both systems when I can perfectly have a single one for all my needs. Plus, with Canon if I want to go back to Sony in the future, adapters are making AF on Sony bodies better and better.

P.S - Before anyone suggests it, no, I'm not whiling to spend us$3200 on an A7RII.
 
Yes, Magic Lantern allows you to increase the bit-rate by up to a factor of 3.0 - which is GIGANTIC. For example: setting the bit-rate factor to 1.4 will increase the bit-rate by almost 50-percent.

Is it stable on the 5Dmkiii? I don't know, but I'd bet we can find out at the Magic Lantern Forum.
I'm going to check into this right now...

Info found: Just like on any high bit-rate camera, you're going to need VERY fast memory cards - like the Sandisk Extreme Pro series or something similar.
Also, very high bit-rate clips may not play back in-camera for more than ten seconds even though they are fine when you bring them into a computer for playback.

All the info I'm finding so far is for lower models - so it may very well be a lot smoother on a 5Dmkiii.


From http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/userguide

[h=3]Bit Rate[/h]Controls H.264 bitrate used for video recording.
Possible modes:
  • CBR: constant bitrate. You specify a factor for multiplying default video bitrate, between 0.1x and 3x. CBR 1x is the firmware default setting.
  • QScale: constant quality, variable bitrate (VBR). Available values: -16 … +16. Lower numbers mean higher bitrates.
  • Firmware default: completely disable bitrate control.
Notes:
  • Increasing the bitrate may cause recording to stop. You need a fast card.
  • CBR actually works by adjusting QScale on the fly; the instant value is displayed near the recording dot.
  • In QScale mode, bitrate is completely out of control (don't use it!).
  • In CBR mode, QScale will not go outside [-16…+16]. When QScale reaches the extreme values (-16 or +16), bitrate will be different than your CBR setting. Watch the bitrate indicators. This is not a bug, please do not report it.
  • You can push the bitrate higher if you record without sound, then use Audio RemoteShot to sync the video with an external audio track.
  • You can't change this setting during recording.
  • If buffer usage gets too high, ML will pause all CPU-intensive graphics. Change the BuffWarnLevel setting to customize this.
 
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I have heard some good stuff about the Samsung NX1 but personally don't know much about this camera except the price point on cost for a 4K isn't bad.
 
rawfa said:
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If I don't want to shoot raw using Magic Lantern with the 5D MARK III can I simply increase the bitrate? If I CAN increase the bitrate, is is stable? The thing is, I have a Sony A7S, some sony lenses, the Nikon D610 and some nikon lenses but I want one system to rule them all for both video AND STILLS.
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Yes, you can use Magic Lantern with the 5D MARK III to only increase bitrate. It is stable up to certain amount, make tests to determine how much you can go.
On top of that, since the 5D III has clean HDMI out, you can add an external recorder/monitor, like the Atomos Ninja Blade, and have superb video image quality. Once you'd start shooting serious video you'd appreciate the huge benefit of a good external monitor.
In my experience, the Canon way is the 'one system to rule them all' for both stills and video. Comparing the video image quality of the Canons to the Sonys, Panasonics and Samsungs, the Canons are the best to my eyes, best colors, especially skin tones and better film-like look. As for the Nikon D610 compared to the recent Canons, I believe it falls short in both video and stills.
If you prefer a better auto focus in video on somewhat better low light capability, the Canon 7D MKII with an external recorder/monitor is the way to go. If you'd go for the 7D II, an external recorder is almost a must, since as for now there is no Magic Lantern version for it. Yet the 7D II + the Ninja Blade is cheaper than the 5D III. The benefits of the 5D III over the 7D II are better low light performance and the ability to shoot raw with ML (which severely limits shots lengths, eats memory cards like a hungry beast and calls for cumbersome post workflow).
Either the 5D III or the 7D II with external recorder gives better video quality then the Canon C100 (MK I) and C300 (MK I) internal recording. Also, with an external recorder the maximum 29:99 minutes shots length of both those Canon DSLRs is overcome.
 
New_Zealand said:
I have heard some good stuff about the Samsung NX1 but personally don't know much about this camera except the price point on cost for a 4K isn't bad.
Click to expand...

From what I've seen, its' color rendering is very poor. Technical data doesn't give the full picture, especially when it comes to shooting video.
As for the ability to shoot 4K, 4K is rarely needed, if at all - unless one shoots professionally - and then there are better choices than DSLRs.
 
"one system to rule them all for both video AND STILLS" --> a7R II

You get top notch stills, and video that is similar to that of your current a7S (slog2 XAVC-S, with internal 4K but a bit more noise if you go above ISO 12800). Rolling shutter is pretty bad in APS-C mode, but not at all if you stick to FF. The only real downside is overheating, which is not a problem for everybody (and will probably not be a problem at all if you shoot 1080p, as you would do with a 5D3).
 
New_Zealand said:
I have heard some good stuff about the Samsung NX1 but personally don't know much about this camera except the price point on cost for a 4K isn't bad.
Click to expand...

I liked stuff I saw from the Samsung NX1 - but the discontinuation rumors are now confirmed: DEAD.
They are discontinuing sales to Europe now. Everything else cant be far behind.
Too bad.

I agree that if you were to have ONLY ONE camera - the 5Dmkiii is still top dog and I'd go that route in an instant if I needed to. A jillion users who aren't selling, and very high resale prices keep proving this year after year.
 
Samuel H said:
"one system to rule them all for both video AND STILLS" --> a7R II ...
Click to expand...
And it will also work with Canon lenses via an adapter ... not perfectly, but it'll work. And, if one goes for primes in a manual mode, it will work very well.

PS. There are also some Canon 80D (70D MKII) rumors out there but it's very murky on that front. 5D MKIV may be a year away, primarily because MKIII is so incredibly profitable to this day.
 
He said he has an a7S and D610 right now, so being able to use his current lenses is a plus too.

And yes, he also said a7R II is too expensive, but really, are the 5D3 or D810 that much cheaper? They are both very good too, that's for sure, but the a7R II is sharper (even in 1080p), has a lot more DR, and better codec... And having to buy new lenses for a Canon camera would probably kill their not-so-big price advantage.

The real issue for me would be: making sure the a7R II has the improved colors of the a7S II (i.e. a7S II has much nicer colors than a7S, but I'm not sure on which side the a7R II stands).
 
IMO, A7RII has great colors in s35 4K.

As to prices - "official" 5D MKII is $2,500 brand new but there are a few gray market and a bunch of used bodies available that go for a lot less.
 
Apparently different people see differently. Therefore the best way for evaluating the colors and image quality of different cameras is that each one will look at clips on the net from various cameras and decide for oneself.
 
Joshua_G said:
Apparently different people see differently. Therefore the best way for evaluating the colors and image quality of different cameras is that each one will look at clips on the net from various cameras and decide for oneself.
Click to expand...

Not me. I'm very literal. I see all colors in black and white.
 
As far as Canon pricing ....

A Canon 5DIII from the Canon USA store refurbished sale a couple of weeks ago was $1,800. That is basically brand new, with a 1 year Canon USA warranty. It was actually cheaper for those who were able to stack some extra coupons for a few hours.

The Canon 7DII is on sale from the same store for $999 through the end of today, Tuesday, 11/17. Not a lot of time left of course, but the sale may be back. The Canon 6D is the same price, $999. For those looking for Canon deals, Canon Price Watch is a great resource:

http://www.canonpricewatch.com/

Those refurbished prices should also help push used prices down below those benchmarks, at least for a while.

Best,
Michael
 
Higher bitrate won't save the 5D III image quality. ALL-I is already high enough. The problem with 5D is the way the image is recorded, it doesn't have a full sensor read-out, unlike newer Sony A7s/II AR7II. An external recorder, not sure... Only way it can compete with A7S/II is ML raw recording. 5DIII might have better colors, I have to agree with this. But grading-wise S-loG give a much higher latitude.
If you need a hybrid that would do both video and photo - A7RII. As a 5d III owner, I'd pick this camera.
 
RTI said:
Higher bitrate won't save the 5D III image quality. ALL-I is already high enough. The problem with 5D is the way the image is recorded, it doesn't have a full sensor read-out, unlike newer Sony A7s/II AR7II. An external recorder, not sure... Only way it can compete with A7S/II is ML raw recording. 5DIII might have better colors, I have to agree with this. But grading-wise S-loG give a much higher latitude.
If you need a hybrid that would do both video and photo - A7RII. As a 5d III owner, I'd pick this camera.
Click to expand...

I have both, the 5d mark III raw and the A7s (mark i). 5d raw is clear winner, especially for grading. Slog is a drag. It gives good highlights (especially on a sunny day) but on everything else it kinda fails.
 
Is there in-camera playback when using ML RAW with the 5DM3?

And how does it handle creating full frame 1920 X 1080 RAW files since the sensor is bigger than that?

Thanks so much!
 
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BobbyMurcerFan said:
Is there in-camera playback when using ML RAW with the 5DM3?

And how does it handle creating full frame 1920 X 1080 RAW files since the sensor is bigger than that?

Thanks so much!
Click to expand...

There's a lot of info on magic lantern forums. There are some modules that let you playback the footage recorded in raw, but... let's say it's different than the normal footage - you won't have the usual Canon menu and smooth video in camera preview. As for the image size question, I'm not really into technical details but afaik the camera records the live view feed thus the image size.
 
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